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Post by Gigermann on May 3, 2013 13:56:11 GMT -6
Always so harsh Even when we were in the early stages just talking about the round-robin concept, I figured Chris wasn't going to be as excited about running as anyone else. It will have been a good experience for him, though, seeing what it's like on the other side of the screen. Even "dodging" the Obsidian Portal stuff shows that he's recognized the work that goes into it. Overall, my expectations have been met, for all concerned—including N8 and Shelley; the one surprise being that N8 was a bit more enthusiastic about running than I anticipated. Even if Chris ended up making a wondrous mess of things—which he hasn't (yet )—I'd still consider it all a success.
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Post by WxMAN on May 3, 2013 14:15:37 GMT -6
Always so harsh I tried coming up with a good reply. I don't have one. Its meant to be an honest assessment. Then again I thought you wanted us to be honest and open with what we like and don't want so actual improvement can be made...
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Post by Gigermann on May 3, 2013 14:15:59 GMT -6
I should probably add that in our Saturday group, the GM doesn't do any of that recording stuff—he leaves it to the Players, and gives points for contributing. "Different strokes."
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Post by Gigermann on May 3, 2013 14:17:41 GMT -6
I tried coming up with a good reply. I don't have one. Its meant to be an honest assessment. Then again I thought you wanted us to be honest and open with what we like and don't want so actual improvement can be made... Don't read too much into that. To be fair, my "lower expectations" could also be considered harsh.
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Post by thedefiantbudah on May 3, 2013 17:17:25 GMT -6
Review: Good improvements on more interest 'arenas' in which to fight. Fight porn makes things very hard to get a handle on a GM'ing style/faults/shining areas. As previously mentioned some more detail and descriptions could help... I know it feels silly but it helps us players who don't know what's going inside your head... This was my biggest GM problem too... You really should know the powers and capabilities of your NPCs since you knew we would fight the barbarian, you need to know how rage works... I pulled grappling out of my booty and didn't expect you to know those rules, that's fine... but if your NPCs have an ability - you need to know its strengths, weaknesses, and how they would fight, etc. Overall story doesn't make overly much sense in a magical world.. As Rigil has said, why not just raise the king? How would they not be prepared for this? Starting the war, having Kingsport burn, and never having us deal with that situation kind of kills all of the time other GMs spent in making Kingsport a familiar and 'homey' place... This may be just me, but asking one of us to do the Obsidian Portal stuff for you rubbed me the really wrong way... That combined with some other off-hand remarks by you regarding when and what you've done kind of feels like a real lack of effort towards making a quality experience for everyone... It may not be true, you could be spending every waking moment crafting this perfectly logical and well thought out adventure, and just your inexperience disrupts your ability to convey it (lord knows that happened to me)... Maybe it is my own bias but it feels like its more of a "lets get this done so I never have to GM again"... As far as all the fight porn, it’s he unfortunate side effect of the pre gen’d mod, I did a little modification in an attempt to fit the current storyline (with some obvious issues) but hopefully have fixed most of those I will work on the details in tonight’s session (which depending on how things go could conclude my run) I will admit I dropped the ball in not knowing all the capabilities of the NPC’s and hope to not have that issue this evening As far as the overall story, I’ve done a little rewriting that should clear that up, however in my defense, no one said I couldn’t destroy the city or monarchy The Obsidian Portal thing was more tongue in cheek than an actual serious request (am working on the notes) and as evident from some of the gaming sessions, focus is a problem of mine at times and it plays havoc in a lot of aspects of things… Hope tonight redeems some of my previous mistakes…
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Post by thedefiantbudah on May 7, 2013 17:57:19 GMT -6
Haven't gotten my critique of my latest session posted yet but I have a request, I'm in the process of typing notes to post to the portal to update the story, would anyone like to volunteer as a sounding board to make sure I get all the info in it?
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Post by Gigermann on May 7, 2013 18:19:42 GMT -6
Haven't gotten my critique of my latest session posted yet but I have a request, I'm in the process of typing notes to post to the portal to update the story, would anyone like to volunteer as a sounding board to make sure I get all the info in it? Just put up what you've got, and we'll be sure to message/comment anything you missed. As to critique—I thought you hit your second-session stride on your third
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Post by thedefiantbudah on May 7, 2013 22:08:05 GMT -6
As far as the third session -
I think it went pretty well and hopefully repaired some of the flaws in the story with the way things played out...and the way it ended, that was somewhat improvised as Aaron was supposed to survive the encounter lol
I think that overall it went pretty good with a decent flow (as I had prepared a little better) nothing comes to mind as far as anything majorly bad (however it could be a little biased)
btw, bennies to Giger, WxMan, and LabRat for their help and to Rigil for logically questioning how things went down in the first session
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Post by WxMAN on May 9, 2013 16:02:33 GMT -6
Review:
The third session was easily the best from you by far. The Wendigos were very interesting and the combats made sense... It was very enjoyable and you should be commended as you showed notable improvement...
Onto the not so hot: I think Lug should have been pulled the second Tom didn't join - as I have no idea what making him into a Doppelganger accomplished... it didn't really add anything to the story as you ran it and didn't really leave much meat for another GM to use... descriptions still need attention being drawn to them and out of combat scenes could be more plentiful and interesting... I understand the adventure path is what you went with and so that can take some of the blame for the combat heaviness of it, however that just may be your preferred style and that's fine too - everyone's combat to social ratio is different...
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Post by thedefiantbudah on May 9, 2013 18:12:53 GMT -6
Essentially the run (as it shaped up in the end) was intended to keep the PCs out of play during the events occurring in Kingsport...the continued presence of Lug was essentially a "spy in your midst" and when the real chamberlain showed up, he bolted
In hindsight, I should have delayed bringing in Lug until I knew if Tom was joining...however, there was a point in which I was contemplating actually killing off Walen with Lug being my replacement character
The details and descriptions are still being typed up (as it's finals week coming up I've been focused on that) and I hope to have it all figured out and typed up by Monday or Tuesday...
As far as Lug, he can either be a NPC used later or a character that possibly never was or long dead
The combat heaviness of the Sessions was from the Mods themselves, I tried to add some additional elements to break up the constant fighting but was only partially successful
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Post by WxMAN on May 9, 2013 19:09:47 GMT -6
The details and descriptions are still being typed up (as it's finals week coming up I've been focused on that) and I hope to have it all figured out and typed up by Monday or Tuesday... Focus on finals first - they are way more important than anything else right now... Also, Do the PC's actually know what is going on in Kingsport (the only information I remember getting was from the Doppel-Chamberlain) or is that for me to decide?
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Post by thedefiantbudah on May 9, 2013 20:44:57 GMT -6
the Chamberlain stated that he had been on his way back to Kingsport to check on the king when he ran into the PCs
as far as the extent of what happened, that wasn't divulged so it would be up to you as to the current state of the kingdom
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Post by WxMAN on May 12, 2013 11:50:21 GMT -6
Self Review from 10 May 2013:
The night went - overall - about how I expected... to a point...
The beginning fight took much longer than I thought, once I realized just how dangerous windegos could be. This was my mistake and once I realized it could easily turn into a TPK decided to play them a little dumber than they probably should.... My excuse was that since these creatures are typically solitary stalking hunters, they have been driven into the village based on extreme hunger (they can die from starvation) and their drive for fresh overpowered their natural hunting instincts...
I was overall a bit disappointed that the PC's weren't as proactive making the decisions I had laid out in front of you - obviously exhaustion from the work week played into it, I just didn't know how to fix it once the decision had been placed in front of y'all... I wanted to give you time to figure out what your characters would do, but at the same time I didn't want it to just drag... I don't know how I would have done it differently... Maybe some thoughts from the group will better let me know what I did wrong...
The scout ambush didn't go as well as I'd like.. It is hard to set up a combat where the deck is stacked against the PC's without making it feel like "Alright GM, we get it, we can't win... just put your magic knockout BS ray down and get on with the story"... I expected y'all to lose, but it did end up as a draw when they saw you weren't bandits, but Generican's... They were actually matched to fight so had things gone your way (ie, not constantly failing a DC 14 Will) you probably could have taken them
Mistress Domina encounter was a bit fun, I don't know how much Rigil enjoyed it, but it was meant to be as awkward as it was since sowing discord is something Domina tends to do...
Thimbleplop went about as I expected. I know Giger disbelieves a small Thorp of people can out-travel a small adventuring party, and he is probably right... but that's how it happened and I am not changing it... It wasn't meant to be a no win scenario as much as a reminder to the PC's that sometimes even doing everything 'right' still leads to bad things happening (through no fault of your own)...
Overall I was relatively happy... It started well, the middle felt a bit draggy to me and I felt I may have rushed the end a bit... I'm still learning time management that's for sure...
The part I was most disappointed in myself is just being able to properly describe a scenario/scene in such a way that I don't feel like I need to go back and clarify my intent... The two militaries were a good example - I meant to really show how Domina and Drago run their militaries different to accomplish the same thing, but I felt I wasn't doing that properly and had to come back and tell y'all exactly what I was trying to accomplish...
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Post by Gigermann on May 13, 2013 8:35:19 GMT -6
Maybe some thoughts from the group will better let me know what I did wrong... I don't recall what incident(s) this might be It is hard to set up a combat where the deck is stacked against the PC's without making it feel like " At some point (usually when the encounter actually starts) you just have to let go of your expectations and accept whatever happens. That said, as Players, we've come to expect that the GM "will never give us more than we can bear," and that has obvious downsides. The more we start to delve into pure sandbox/hex-crawl games, where outcomes are not guaranteed, the more we may be broken of that expectation—or that's my hope, anyway. Giger disbelieves a small Thorp of people can out-travel a small adventuring party, and he is probably right... Of course I'm right The part I was most disappointed in myself is just being able to properly describe a scenario/scene in such a way that I don't feel like I need to go back and clarify my intent... Even the vets have issues with this. Any time there is a misunderstanding, it inevitably has miscommunication at its root. Plus, no matter how you describe a scene, everyone is going to have a slightly different picture in their heads, and there's no way to tell what's "off." One of the reasons I try to use images as often as I can—easier to get everyone on the same page.
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Post by Rigil Kent on May 14, 2013 10:23:10 GMT -6
Mistress Domina encounter was a bit fun, I don't know how much Rigil enjoyed it, but it was meant to be as awkward as it was since sowing discord is something Domina tends to do... Enjoyed it. Could see it coming as soon as the scouts told us to go see the general and no one actually named the general, but Alain was blindsided. Enjoyed the session overall. Until I started looking over the wendigo stats myself, I didn't realize just how fricking scary they are. The moral issue between letting the chancellor taking Gestlin is probably due to the players not really trusting either one of the two. As it stands, Gestlin got us into a lot of trouble beforehand, so classifying him as friends is difficult. You know what's funny? At the rate that these Generican nobles and leaders keep screwing us over, would it surprise anyone if we threw up our hands and ended joining the Nefarians? LOL
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Post by Gigermann on May 14, 2013 10:54:56 GMT -6
The moral issue between letting the chancellor taking Gestlin is probably due to the players not really trusting either one of the two. As it stands, Gestlin got us into a lot of trouble beforehand, so classifying him as friends is difficult. It felt weird to me from the standpoint of the Wizards' Guild being an extra-national entity that might have political immunity from that sort of thing—but not all of us may think of it that way. Also, although he's technically "Chaotic," I don't think I would have made him "have a problem" with making his case to the king—but that's just me. Inherent issues with having multiple GMs running the same characters it will be virtually impossible for all of us to have the same vision. You know what's funny? At the rate that these Generican nobles and leaders keep screwing us over, would it surprise anyone if we threw up our hands and ended joining the Nefarians? LOL Especially if they keep behaving in a more-or-less "reasonable" manner
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Post by Rigil Kent on May 14, 2013 14:07:25 GMT -6
Heh. That would be an amusing twist, don't you think? Where we're good guys (mostly) working for the Bad Guys ... because they're more reasonable and not quite the assholes that the "Good Guys" are. WxMAN: Make it happen.
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Post by thedefiantbudah on May 15, 2013 10:02:50 GMT -6
Overall I really enjoyed it, really didn't have any issues with any part of it (however I'd have liked to have seen what the wendigos could've done if not dumbed down)
As far as the Gestlin thing, he could have lost his "immunity" by being disbarred or something
And I could see the PC's working for/with Nefaria with the way things have been going
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Post by WxMAN on May 15, 2013 11:56:31 GMT -6
That said, as Players, we've come to expect that the GM "will never give us more than we can bear," and that has obvious downsides. The more we start to delve into pure sandbox/hex-crawl games, where outcomes are not guaranteed, the more we may be broken of that expectation—or that's my hope, anyway. Yes, but in this situation y'all kind of got ambushed... this wasn't like you guys passed a sign that said "beware of dragons the size of New York" and laughed it off... If the players are foolhardy enough to ignore plainly obvious signs of danger that is above there head its one thing (and if I was GM'ing under that case I wouldn't feel too terrible about a TPK)... its quite another to ambush the group that has done nothing wrong in a stacked fight without me feeling like what I am doing is 'cheap'... The moral issue between letting the chancellor taking Gestlin is probably due to the players not really trusting either one of the two. As it stands, Gestlin got us into a lot of trouble beforehand, so classifying him as friends is difficult. I guess I inappropriately overestimated the connection that the players had to Gestlin... It felt weird to me from the standpoint of the Wizards' Guild being an extra-national entity that might have political immunity from that sort of thing—but not all of us may think of it that way. Also, although he's technically "Chaotic," I don't think I would have made him "have a problem" with making his case to the king—but that's just me. Inherent issues with having multiple GMs running the same characters it will be virtually impossible for all of us to have the same vision. I think multiple GM's is definitely a big part of the issue, and obviously there is more going on that the players have been intentionally kept in the dark on... much of which will be revealed on Friday... I was ready for the PC's to side with either the Chamberlain or Gestlin and it honestly wouldn't of changed much for THAT session... Fridays has major impacts based on that choice - obviously no one would 'blame' you for following the orders of the king, but there are still as yet unseen consequences for it (just as there would be had you of chosen to support Gestlin) Heh. That would be an amusing twist, don't you think? Where we're good guys (mostly) working for the Bad Guys ... because they're more reasonable and not quite the assholes that the "Good Guys" are. WxMAN: Make it happen. I know you are being facetious, but this is (supposed to be) a collaborative storytelling, so if the PC's wish to jump ship and join Nefarian I surely won't stop them... however I'd have liked to have seen what the wendigos could've done if not dumbed down Given the way the PC's party is made up, it'd of been a TPK without much effort... Wendigos are meant to be solitary creatures stalking their victim for days while wearing them down, but face to face they would have essentially done the same thing I was doing at the beginning: 1. Attack PC 2. When injured, wind walk away from combat 3. Regen until healed (max 7 rounds) 4. Return to combat and repeat step 1. It'd of been a long boring slog where they whittled you down HP by HP, but I think in the end unless you got some lucky rolls it'd of been TPK time As far as the Gestlin thing, he could have lost his "immunity" by being disbarred or something Hmmmmm you may be onto something
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