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Post by zenwolf on Apr 12, 2011 15:17:33 GMT -6
For the counter: Make your jedi past known.
Would that work?
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Post by WxMAN on Apr 12, 2011 15:20:56 GMT -6
Just FYI Josh... No-Bark.... distrusts... Jedi's. Best not to let him know...
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Post by Gigermann on Apr 12, 2011 15:21:52 GMT -6
For the counter: Make your jedi past known. Would that work? Rigil & I were discussing it a bit ago, and were looking at "getting 'outed' as a Jedi"—so, same page
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Post by Rigil Kent on Apr 12, 2011 16:23:18 GMT -6
Thinking on it, it's more than just being "outed" as a Jedi since that only really comes into play the first time. Rather, it should probably be something "be recognized as a Jedi which complicates the mission" which could cover things like him breaking out the lightsaber or be observed by a third party using the mind trick. In some instances, it doesn't really matter if he's recognized as a Jedi: Ondo's wife, for example, knows he is, as does his "uncle" (former master)...
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Post by zenwolf on Apr 12, 2011 16:49:15 GMT -6
Thinking on it, it's more than just being "outed" as a Jedi since that only really comes into play the first time. Rather, it should probably be something "be recognized as a Jedi which complicates the mission" which could cover things like him breaking out the lightsaber or be observed by a third party using the mind trick. In some instances, it doesn't really matter if he's recognized as a Jedi: Ondo's wife, for example, knows he is, as does his "uncle" (former master)... That works for me.
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Post by Magman on Apr 12, 2011 19:06:24 GMT -6
The keys look alright to me, but how about instead of conscience (kids) I take Boring Conversation Anyway? Where would I find the description for conscience (kids)?
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Post by Rigil Kent on Apr 12, 2011 21:58:49 GMT -6
Your character has a soft spot for those weaker than their opponents. Gain 1 XP every time your character helps someone who cannot help themselves. Gain 2 XP every time your character defends someone with might who is in danger and cannot save themselves. Gain 5 XP every time your character takes someone in an unfortunate situation and changes their life to where they can help themselves. Counter: Ignore a request for help.
If you want to use Boring Conversation Anyway, that works although we'll probably want to tweak the counter a little bit since Brody is not a "negotiator."
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Post by Rigil Kent on Apr 17, 2011 13:42:46 GMT -6
Some housekeeping: - Brody - we still need to figure out his 2nd key ASAP. Bot "Boring Conversation Anyway" and "My Kind of Scum" (see Jor's key) fit him very well, I think.
- Jor - we still need to figure out the counter for the mechanics based key ... and truthfully, I'm concerned this one is too open-ended as well.
- No-Bark - I'm going to change the "Get Some Bacta, Trooper." It'll be 1 xp per session if you heal a PC, 3 XP if you conduct surgery during a combat scene. As it is, I'm a little concerned that, with his keys, he's going to get xp more quickly than anyone else, so additional changes may be forthcoming.
- More as appropriate.
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Post by WxMAN on Apr 17, 2011 15:13:35 GMT -6
- No-Bark - I'm going to change the "Get Some Bacta, Trooper." It'll be 1 xp per session if you heal a PC, 3 XP if you conduct surgery during a combat scene. As it is, I'm a little concerned that, with his keys, he's going to get xp more quickly than anyone else, so additional changes may be forthcoming
I completely agree, I think No-Bark would just be getting XP like candy if we didn't cap it - we can see how his XP stacks up to others as the campaign goes on and determine if the cap needs to be bumped to 2 xp max or whatever
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Post by Magman on Apr 20, 2011 17:28:28 GMT -6
Boring Conversation Anyway is what I want, can't really think of a good counter though. Anybody have any ideas?
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Post by Rigil Kent on Apr 20, 2011 21:57:17 GMT -6
I've ... really got nothing. Suggestions anyone?
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Post by LabRat on Apr 21, 2011 9:05:22 GMT -6
Are we tweaking Boring Conversation Anyway for Brody? If so, what are parameters of the key for his character and then maybe I can help...
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Post by WxMAN on Apr 21, 2011 9:20:17 GMT -6
I've ... really got nothing. Suggestions anyone? I don't know why Brody wants that key.. but that's his choice... a logical counter would be to "turn the other cheek"... ie, if Brody gets into a heated convo (say in a cantina?) and takes an insult by backing down / not fighting back then he loses XP
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Post by Gigermann on Apr 21, 2011 9:28:18 GMT -6
Idea:
"Aggressive Negotiations": Similar to BCA, Counter: Attempt to negotiate (ex. Intimidation) without attempting to fight it out first
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Post by Magman on Apr 21, 2011 21:00:48 GMT -6
I like this sounds Brody like
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Post by Rigil Kent on May 7, 2011 9:50:38 GMT -6
A reminder might be in order for all the players: please re-familiarize yourself with the keys we picked for your character. Jor, for example, has "My Kind of Scum" which is a law-breaking key, but made no effort to "misbehave" (which could probably be blamed on lack of sleep.)
Also, if anyone is dissatisfied with their current Keys, please let me know so we can look at revising them.
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Post by WxMAN on May 7, 2011 11:42:27 GMT -6
In defense of No-Bark...
1. I healed that shop owner 2. No-Bark didn't see Ondo injured, nor did Ondo say anything... how was he supposed to know... player knowledge v character knowledge... people do need to call for medic when they need healing, otherwise I'll get dinged every time someone has a papercut and I don't rush over with full medpac in tow... 3. I would have done surgery, but was told by the GM that he wouldn't make it 10 minutes... so I wasn't even given the opportunity really... 4. My beliefs have brought great harm in that the crew essentially ignores any suggestion No-Bark makes b/c they assume he is crazy....
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Post by zenwolf on May 7, 2011 14:23:33 GMT -6
2. No-Bark didn't see Ondo injured Exhibit A- No Bark has a perception of +10 Exhibit B- Ondo had 25/61 HP and was -1 on the condition track Exhibit C- I(the player) was clutching my chest and talking in a slow wheezing voice. So if I had been knocked completely unconscious, i would have just been SOL? And I agree if it had been a minor wound and/or I refused treatment I can see you having an argument. But with the facts of the situation? Not so much. I don't want to see any of us lose experience, but come on man, don't try and blame it on me.
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Post by Rigil Kent on May 7, 2011 15:07:22 GMT -6
In defense of No-Bark... 1. I healed that shop owner True. Regarding #2... 2. No-Bark didn't see Ondo injured Exhibit A- No Bark has a perception of +10 Exhibit B- Ondo had 25/61 HP and was -1 on the condition track Exhibit C- I(the player) was clutching my chest and talking in a slow wheezing voice. In this case, I have to side with zenwolf. He took 36 hp in a single mighty blow, which was well over half his HP (more like 60%, I think) so he's going to look rough. I made a note of him playing up the wheezing, and I also noticed you making the "nobody called my name." The way zenwolf has been playing Ondo, he's going to insist he's okay, even when he's holding in his intestines. Medics are proactive. When the shooting stops, even if no one is bellowing for a medic, the medic should be checking with the team. Is everyone okay? Anybody injured? That sort of thing. Have you watched "Band of Brothers"? There's an utterly fantastic episode centered around the medic character that, if you haven't seen (shame on you!) I highly recommend as it gives an excellent insight into medics. If No-Bark had never interacted with Ondo before the session ended (e.g., we quit for the night before the team reunited), then I'd agree with you, but since everyone but Jor was present, that means No-Bark saw Ondo and noticed he was injured. Nah. Only if that papercut was inflicted by a lightsaber ... and they took off an arm. Its just 2 XP - you're still near the front of the pack when it comes to XP gain ... and I dinged Jor for not even bothering to find a less than legal way to accomplish some stuff and for voting to call the cops. That was a plot cutscene - you weren't dinged for that. Partially conceded. I should have awarded him an XP for the crazy during the Sabotaged! adventure, which I have done retroactively. You'll also note that I awarded one for last session - I have no memory of him bringing the sad devotion up in any significant manner in the other two sessions, but if you do, remind me. I'm not infallible ... dammit.
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Post by Gigermann on May 7, 2011 16:29:53 GMT -6
If N8 were actually present (in mind, as in body) at the game, I think he would've reacted differently to Ondo's situation. Side Note: Maybe No-Bark needs Key: Crazy Old Wizard
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Post by Rigil Kent on May 7, 2011 18:42:41 GMT -6
If N8 were actually present (in mind, as in body) at the game, I think he would've reacted differently to Ondo's situation. Or maybe if I did a better job keeping everyone involved and interested ...
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Post by WxMAN on May 7, 2011 23:14:48 GMT -6
I won't argue that I checked out for the night after awhile. I let my frustration shut me out of the game, when I should have said something earlier. Also, this has nothing to do with XP, the XP dinging only let me know that someone disagreed with how I handled a situation, so I was using it as feedback. To that point, I want to ensure people I am trying not to be accusatory or mean in the following; however, there are some things I need to say that I think need to be pointed out. Please take them as I intend them - things I think can be improved for a better gaming experience for everyone. There is a lot of grey area between when a health pack is needed vs when it isn't. To me (player) that was only a moderate injury and not urgent. Brody, Vorrsk, and I have all been below that mark and all let me know if they felt they needed a medpac vs using natural healing. As such, if I am to be inspired by the 'Band of Brothers' medic, then I think it needs to be pointed out that the captain should be much more concerned with earning money for the crew - and his family - and not needlessly wasting opportunities to save/get quick money when it doesn't cross their morality line. The crew, while some have some friendships keeping them there, should also be concerned with making money, and how the money is to be divided up, how purchase decisions are made, etc etc should all be clearly outlined. Examples of this are, wasting medpacs/equipment needlessly, not looting everything we can, not using a little intimidation or other ways around obstacles so we don't have to constantly play errand boy for little to no money, not selling the extra crap we don't need or upgrading all our stuff so we can make more money and/or survive better. MONEY should be our #1 concern, morals #2, and only when there is a huge moral quandary should it losing money be considered - that's how the Firefly crew would have operated. If the crew knows that they won't be getting 'paid' out of this, then there is very few reason most members should even stay - in character. Roleplaying seems to be really hit and miss, with no real way of telling who is really doing/saying what. How many times did No-Bark get punched by Brody last session? 0? 1? 2? 3? I don't know because I couldn't tell when someone was being serious / it happening in-game. I didn't even notice Josh was wheezing, maybe I was too far away, but I didn't see any roleplaying, sorry. Maybe people should preface statements by saying "in character / out of character" if it isn't obvious. No-Bark (and by extension me) are being completely ignored 'because No-Bark is crazy.' When I suggest something it isn't always a "No-Bark" suggestion because maybe I am trying to help with the decision process as a player thinking of things that by chance your character would have thought of that you couldn't because the character's attributes are higher than your own. ie, No-Bark knows about medicine, I am terrible at medicine - so someone who knows medicine in real life suggesting what could be wrong is helping me play No-Bark as his true medic background would allow. So quit ignoring what I am saying. I have given many suggestions for how to handle things, and not once have they even been talked about besides sometimes a sly remark about No-Bark being crazy. You point out that I have a high perception, yet I have been ignored when warning the crew about things that use my high perception - I am 3 points higher than the next highest crew member, yet we always use Tesla or Brody as the primary? It isn't because "we didn't know" as it has been pointed out several times that I have the highest in the crew, it is because 'No-Bark is crazy'. I also have a very high survival and piloting skill. No-Bark sees the world a bit differently, ie sees a great conspiracy occurring behind the backs of the rest of the galaxy - and while he may attribute certain things to this conspiracy the basic truth of the situation is still there. An example: when we were being sabotaged, No-Bark heard an intruder, and immediately blamed the furry devils. The base truth was that there was an intruder, but the part of his psychosis - the furry devils - was the made up bit. So when I say something, there is a base truth in it, the crew just needs to find it instead of ignoring me. Now onto some of the more pointed things: 1. I healed that shop owner True. So where is my XP for that or at least some karma for not letting his butt die/be maimed... That was a plot cutscene - you weren't dinged for that. Nor was I given any chance to actually perform the surgery, or at least give me an opportunity to succeed - even if the DC would have been higher than normal. I think No-Bark would have tried, and it is part of my keys... I don't want to see any of us lose experience, but come on man, don't try and blame it on me. I didn't mean to come off as 'blaming' anyone, to me it was more that I felt you didn't think you needed the medpac... It had nothing to do with me blaming you, I just didn't see things the way you did - out of character... and the night was essentially over right there so I didn't have anytime to get back 'in character'
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Post by Gigermann on May 8, 2011 9:00:36 GMT -6
A very old problem, for all RPG players, and one with no easy solution, though many possibilities have been offered. It's a matter of balancing effectiveness with what's actually fun—apparently you can't have all of both. Suggestions are welcome, though—you might be the one to stumble onto the right idea. No-Bark (and by extension me) are being completely ignored 'because No-Bark is crazy I'm not really seeing this—you'd have to point to some specifics. If it really is so, we can address the problem directly. As to the one example you mentioned: I'm pretty sure, even though the Characters may have ignored the suggestion, the Players would/did not—what did you expect to see, that you did not? You also have to consider that the Player started believing that nobody was taking him seriously, so he stopped trying. In any case, this "crazy" is the bed you made. If you don't like it, make a new bed (or fix this one). I am 3 points higher than the next highest crew member, yet we always use Tesla or Brody as the primary? This doesn't have anything to do with No-Bark/N8's mental fitness. This has to do with a combination of N8's assertiveness (and resulting "visibility") at the table, and the GM's having to keep track of 6-7 individuals at a time. There's a lot of "situational" issues as well, especially in the last session—No-Bark wasn't really attempting to take the lead. We are, and have always been, terribly disorganized in our handling of RPG situations that do not have a clear lead-character. It would be much better if we could all keep quiet until our turn comes around, but we know that will never happen. That said, you're still new to this whole RPG thing. You're only just coming to grips with these issues that the rest of us have been wrestling with for decades.
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Post by Rigil Kent on May 8, 2011 10:27:24 GMT -6
I let my frustration shut me out of the game, when I should have said something earlier. Yeah. As much as I'd like to be, I'm not a mind-reader (although it would rule if I were.) So when a player checks out of the game for whatever reason - bored, distracted by something on their laptop, texting, etc. - I tend to blame myself: the game isn't exciting enough, or its bogged down, that sort of thing. Thus, I can't fix something if I don't know its broken. Ondo took over sixty percent damage in a single hit. That seems a bit more than just moderate to me. And then, you guys "interrogated" the doomed Arkanian, and you had enough time to loot the room to find a surgery kit and several cyber-limbs. I know you mentioned this at least once before in a one-on-one discussion, and I reiterate what I told you then: address this with the other players, out of character. I actually agree that you guys need to develop a shares system to determine who gets paid what and when, but that isn't up to me. You can't really put that on zenwolf either - its a party dynamic thing that's just not often actually touched on in RPGs. The crew/party/band just evenly split the loot, and then go off on further adventures. So, short answer, DISCUSS THIS AMONG THE GROUP. I also don't entirely agree with you that morals played no role in the types of jobs the Serenity crew took - examine the first actual episode of the series, "The Bank Job." Morality led them to turning those drugs back over to the town that needed them, thus earning them Nisska's enmity. Morality caused Mal to keep River and Simon aboard when the smart money would be to ditch them ASAP. Morality led to the entire mess in the "Serenity" movie - and killed Wash. So yeah, I tend to disagree with that argument entirely. Yeah ... now multiply that by six or seven and sit behind the screen. Its definitely a problem at times - I can't count the number of instances throughout the years that I've seen a player do or say something crazy whacky, and then when I, as the GM, react to it, said player leaps in "that was me, not my player!" (Usually when something bad is about to result from the action/statement.) I was under the impression that No-Bark was never actually punched by Brody, because Brody always found a NPC to spaz out at instead and Magman was goofing off. Mostly agreed, although we have tried to implement something like that in the past and invariably, it falls away. As it stands right now, when a player says they're going to do something, I have to assume that their character is doing it ... otherwise, everything I say will be "Are you saying this, or is No-Bark?" and that'll bog us down even further. I was not aware that you were actually being ignored. It is, I suspect, an unfortunate side-effect of playing a crazy character. We can work on that - as you pointed out earlier, though, sometimes its frankly difficult to tell when you are positing a valid suggestion and when you're being No-Bark the Crazy Person. No offense is intended. He also talks about an imaginary space turkey that only he can see and rants about "furry devils." That kind of goes a little beyond just seeing things differently. If a guy you worked with carried on conversations with someone who isn't there or insists that he has a pet alligator ... and it was just here a few seconds ago, but now its disappeared, you're going to tend to dismiss everything he says, even when it falls into his realm of expertise. Its human nature and why Crazy is really hard to handle in groups. And again, I point you to the before-mentioned space turkey. There are times, yes, where there may be a base truth to his statements, but when you factor in things that are simply whacked out, people have a tendency to disregard the good in favor of the bad. "That dude is crazy." becomes "Ignore him, he's crazy." Perhaps this needs to be the focus of No-Bark's loyalty mission - making the crew realize that he should not be totally dismissed because there's always a kernel of truth in his madness. Thus, someone needs to develop a No-Bark translator (so to speak.) The karma is coming. I just haven't written it. Then we can say that he sprang into action and did try - its just that the damage was too great and it was a Plot-Scripted Demise. In any case, this "crazy" is the bed you made. If you don't like it, make a new bed (or fix this one). There's also the matter of the inspiration - a lot of us have no frame of reference to the original "No-Bark" from Fallout 3, so we don't always know where you're coming from. I actually like the character, but am at a loss how to resolve the serious lack of enjoyment and/or frustration you appear to be experiencing. Which is always ... fun, especially when things get crazy crazy. Truthfully, even then we have issues. It gets amplified the more people we have, and if the GM doesn't do a really good job at maintaining control, it leads to messes - players get bored or frustrated and check out, which leads the GM to getting frustrated because he perceives (right or wrong) that players don't care about the game, and so on. Its a terrible cycle ...
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Post by zenwolf on May 8, 2011 12:15:20 GMT -6
A lot to cover here. I agree with Rigel and Gigermann. They did a pretty good job of summing it up. I let my frustration shut me out of the game, when I should have said something earlier. I think the "should have said something earlier" is a key point in all of this. If something is bothering you have to communicate it and not let it fester. As such, if I am to be inspired by the 'Band of Brothers' medic, then I think it needs to be pointed out that the captain should be much more concerned with earning money for the crew - and his family - and not needlessly wasting opportunities to save/get quick money when it doesn't cross their morality line. The crew, while some have some friendships keeping them there, should also be concerned with making money, and how the money is to be divided up, how purchase decisions are made, etc etc should all be clearly outlined. Examples of this are, wasting medpacs/equipment needlessly, not looting everything we can, not using a little intimidation or other ways around obstacles so we don't have to constantly play errand boy for little to no money, not selling the extra crap we don't need or upgrading all our stuff so we can make more money and/or survive better. I know you mentioned this at least once before in a one-on-one discussion, and I reiterate what I told you then: address this with the other players, out of character. I actually agree that you guys need to develop a shares system to determine who gets paid what and when, but that isn't up to me. You can't really put that on zenwolf either - its a party dynamic thing that's just not often actually touched on in RPGs. The crew/party/band just evenly split the loot, and then go off on further adventures. So, short answer, DISCUSS THIS AMONG THE GROUP. Yeah, this is the first that I heard this was an issue for you WxMAN. We can start handing out some shares but we need to try and stay in the black as much as possible so we don't have to resort to drug dealing and the like(which are high risk/potentially unwanted attention attracting). Suggestions on how to handle this? EDIT: Refer to- Splitting the Shares MONEY should be our #1 concern, morals #2, and only when there is a huge moral quandary should it losing money be considered - that's how the Firefly crew would have operated. If the crew knows that they won't be getting 'paid' out of this, then there is very few reason most members should even stay - in character. I agree with what Rigel said on this issue. In addition to money and morals, another issue for at least some of the characters would be keeping a low profile. Tesla is hiding out form the Shadow wolves, Ondo is hiding out from the Jedi, Brody is hiding out from some Hutts, and No-Bark is hiding from "the furry devils". So attracting extra attention to themselves is a bad thing. I didn't even notice Josh was wheezing, maybe I was too far away, but I didn't see any roleplaying, sorry. You had admittedly "checked out" so you really don't have a leg to stand on here. Maybe people should preface statements by saying "in character / out of character" if it isn't obvious. Or if something is unclear to someone they can ask for clarification. Simple enough and it only comes up when there is confusion so we don't wind up getting bogged down. No-Bark (and by extension me) are being completely ignored 'because No-Bark is crazy.' Agree with GIgermann and Rigel. You chose to play what could be considered something of a "joke" character and then get upset when no one takes him seriously? So quit ignoring what I am saying. I was unaware that I was doing so. Examples? I have given many suggestions for how to handle things, and not once have they even been talked about besides sometimes a sly remark about No-Bark being crazy. You point out that I have a high perception, yet I have been ignored when warning the crew about things that use my high perception - I am 3 points higher than the next highest crew member, yet we always use Tesla or Brody as the primary? It isn't because "we didn't know" as it has been pointed out several times that I have the highest in the crew, it is because 'No-Bark is crazy'. I also have a very high survival and piloting skill. Have we come across much need for survival? If we have and we ignored you I apologize. As for piloting, you have +11 but I have a +15 and Vehicular combat so I have therefore assumed pilot duties. The only time we have used someone else for a pilot, that I am aware of, was when Tesla stole the speeder. No-Bark sees the world a bit differently, ie sees a great conspiracy occurring behind the backs of the rest of the galaxy - and while he may attribute certain things to this conspiracy the basic truth of the situation is still there. An example: when we were being sabotaged, No-Bark heard an intruder, and immediately blamed the furry devils. The base truth was that there was an intruder, but the part of his psychosis - the furry devils - was the made up bit. So when I say something, there is a base truth in it, the crew just needs to find it instead of ignoring me. Have we seen much of this "base truth"? Seems like we have mostly just seen the crazy. Like Sarah Conner, he may be eventually be proven right, but right now it is hard to count on him for much besides shooting and healing. If we make No-Bark the primary on perception then sure we may notice something, but then it has to be filtered through his craziness. He may notice things that aren't there in addition to what is actually there. Whereas for a mere 2 points less on perception they don't have to deal with the extra hassle. If we can do his loyalty mission and "fix" or at least tone down the crazy a few notches, I think it will help. Therefore, I think his loyalty mission should be dealt with first. Another issue is that we do have a large group and a number of things derive from that - People will probably have some overlap in roles and capabilities, so you may not be able to show off everything you can do all the time.
- Cross table communication becomes more difficult.
- It becomes more difficult to do story focused plots, for individual characters.
This last point is particularly concerning for me because I really like the individual story lines. It is something that is very much on my mind as I try to work on my own campaign. I have run 2 M and M campaigns one for 3 people and one for 6. It was jarring enough trying to write individual storylines and bounce around the table for 6, bit now we may have 7 or 8? Scary.
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Post by WxMAN on May 8, 2011 19:08:59 GMT -6
I think the "should have said something earlier" is a key point in all of this. If something is bothering you have to communicate it and not let it fester. I agree... I think this is mainly my fault for not communicating properly and for that I apologize, I got frustrated and forgot that communication is key. I haven't had to 'familiarize myself' with a new group of people in a long time so I guess my social skills are a bit lacking. So take this post as a formal apology for not communicating and blowing up before actually trying to work things out... My bad and I will deal with the repercussions for it... That said, you're still new to this whole RPG thing. You're only just coming to grips with these issues that the rest of us have been wrestling with for decades. I think this may also be contributing to things.. I may be in my 'teething' phase and learning now parts I don't like about the system and coming to grips of how to ignore them / get around them / fix them... This has to do with a combination of N8's assertiveness (and resulting "visibility") at the table And with the hat of issues I need to consider about myself... I tend to be a very "type A" personality and a bit... bullheaded... so I really try to tone that down during the game so everyone has a chance to be in the spotlight and play the star.... maybe I overcompensated and am being too quiet... I guess I haven't figured out my place entirely... Yeah ... now multiply that by six or seven and sit behind the screen. Its definitely a problem at times. Another issue of mine I guess... it is easy to 'Saturday morning armchair GM' when I have never experienced the terror of sitting at the head of the table looking into the gaunt eyes of the players looking at me **shudder** Then we can say that he sprang into action and did try - its just that the damage was too great and it was a Plot-Scripted Demise. I guess then that is something I didn't like personally...it feels like a 'scripted death' in a video game... think the 'light the tower' mission early in Dragon Age.. that 'death scene' before Flemeth 'saves' you felt so cheap.. you don't even get a chance to do things right. It takes the whole purpose of my character and says "you're useless unless I say differently" You chose to play what could be considered something of a "joke" character and then get upset when no one takes him seriously? We have a face that gets upset and punches people when she feels she is losing, we have a Jedi that can't use his powers, we have a psychotic gunner, and a robot that has random personalities... I don't see No-Bark being that far out of the norm for this crew... maybe a character who can still do his primary job and skills while not being constantly interfered with his flaws is a "joke" to you... Whereas for a mere 2 points less on perception they don't have to deal with the extra hassle. Its 3 points first off, secondly, Ondo is the next best... he is better at helping with his +5 help bonus... so looking toward the 3rd best (Brody), I am 4 points ahead of him... So that means I have a 20% (4/20 * 100%)better chance at seeing something than the next logical person... 20% is A LOT OF DIFFERENCE. I was unaware that I was doing so. Examples? Just one off the top of my head was telling that woman who sent us to her so we wouldn't have to go on this "fetch" quest and just get the deal and get out of here... It wasn't even considered... I also suggested using your mind powers to just get the info out of her, again, wasn't considered... Perhaps this needs to be the focus of No-Bark's loyalty mission - making the crew realize that he should not be totally dismissed because there's always a kernel of truth in his madness. Thus, someone needs to develop a No-Bark translator (so to speak.) Not a bad idea... thinking now... I'd like him to still be crazy but be more respected and right so that the group is willing to deal with the crazy because the other info is worthwhile...
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Post by zenwolf on May 8, 2011 20:53:04 GMT -6
so I guess my social skills are a bit lacking. Welcome to the club man. Lol I don't see No-Bark being that far out of the norm for this crew... maybe a character who can still do his primary job and skills while not being constantly interfered with his flaws is a "joke" to you... By joke character I mean largely played for comedy relief. I would consider Raegar a joke character. It doesn't mean they aren't useful just that they are not likely to be taken seriously by other PCs. I don't know the character from fallout 3 but I do know the franchise and it is VERY joke character oriented. If he has serious issues that he is dealing with those really haven't been played up from what I have seen. Its 3 points first off, secondly, Ondo is the next best... he is better at helping with his +5 help bonus... so looking toward the 3rd best (Brody), I am 4 points ahead of him... So that means I have a 20% (4/20 * 100%)better chance at seeing something than the next logical person... 20% is A LOT OF DIFFERENCE. According to obsidian portal both you and Brody have +10 though for some reason I remember you saying you have a +12 so I don't know. Regardless of the percentage, if part of the information is unreliable the others may be reticent to act on it. But the point is largely moot. We can just declare you always primary and just gloss over the in character considerations if it will make it more fun for you. Because really why are we doing this if not for fun. Just one off the top of my head was telling that woman who sent us to her so we wouldn't have to go on this "fetch" quest and just get the deal and get out of here. I can't understand this. Typo or something left out? .. I also suggested using your mind powers to just get the info out of her, again, wasn't considered... If other people are around Ondo is not going to use the mind trick. It is not a subtle power.
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Post by Gigermann on May 9, 2011 8:20:02 GMT -6
Well, now that we've identified a few bugs in our game experience, what are we going to do to remedy them? Any thoughts? My 2¢: - Treat every situation that involves a lot of "character activity" like combat—taking turns, declaring actions, & making dice-checks (although the actual "results" would end up taking place simultaneously)—everyone gets their say, and nobody gets missed
- Keep the side-chat to a minimum, especially when dice-rolling is imminent—everyone needs to police themselves on this, though
- Wouldn't hurt to develop some kind of "code" for actual character actions—not sure what might be less awkward to use, here. Might be more efficient for the GM to have a code/system to say, "anything said at this point is actual character speech/action," when things start getting messy
- Assume there will be only one "primary skill guy" (presumably, the best at the needed trait) and everyone else aids in whatever way, unless the situation dictates otherwise—keeps things nice & organized
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Post by WxMAN on May 9, 2011 8:54:18 GMT -6
Well, now that we've identified a few bugs in our game experience, what are we going to do to remedy them? Any thoughts? I am not sure if there were that many 'issues' or if this was all just me teething the whole process and being needlessly frustrated when I should have just communicated... Just one off the top of my head was telling that woman who sent us to her so we wouldn't have to go on this "fetch" quest and just get the deal and get out of here... It wasn't even considered... Brain not work well talk type... The force user who you met with during our lunch told us to go and talk to this contact she had for a good rhodium deal. When we got to the place the bar owner said "I know someone, but you have to help me fix my girl before I tell you who it is"... we coulda just said "listen, this lady [whoever she was] sent us here, so give us the info, or we'll go tell her that you've been an issue..." We can just declare you always primary and just gloss over the in character considerations if it will make it more fun for you. No, you're right, I made my crazy bed I should sleep in it... Brody should be primary, I will just help him so he will get a +2... I was using the PDFs listed in the team post, so I don't know which is accurate...
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Post by zenwolf on May 9, 2011 11:17:07 GMT -6
The force user who you met with during our lunch told us to go and talk to this contact she had for a good rhodium deal. When we got to the place the bar owner said "I know someone, but you have to help me fix my girl before I tell you who it is"... we coulda just said "listen, this lady [whoever she was] sent us here, so give us the info, or we'll go tell her that you've been an issue..." K. Got ya. I know this is not a comprehensive list of grievances, but the ones you have listed seem to be less "me not being as smart as my character" and more "me not playing my character the way you think I should or the way you would have played him." I vaguely remember you suggesting this to me, but I dismissed it outright. I might have shook my head, quietly said "Nah", grimaced slightly to indicate my disapproval of the suggestion., but I don't remember. I should have made it clearer so that you didn't feel you were being ignored. My reasoning behind dismissing it outright is as follows: It doesn't fit his character. Ondo considers the ramifications of his actions, it was drilled into him at the Jedi Academy. He is not going to bring up the lady he met at the restaurant because he doesn't want to be outed as a jedi or even force sensitive(which the lady in question could have easily let slip). He also has no idea about the relationship between the Lady and Gildo. Gildo may not even know anything about her. She seemed to be a telepath and could have found out the information in other ways. Also, this guy should be able to get us a good deal, (which by the way will get us more Money!TM, which would alleviate some of the concerns you had earlier. ), so making him unhappy with us is bad business. "More flies with honey..." and all that. If the deal falls through, although the PCs don't know this, we're screwed since we have been blacklisted. If we return without buying Rhodium we have a pissed off Hutt who is the only guy offering decent paying work in the galaxy. So I apologize, since you felt you were being ignored. But in these instances, at least, I had my reasons for not taking your advice. Truce? Brody should be primary, I will just help him so he will get a +2... I was using the PDFs listed in the team post, so I don't know which is accurate... I am not saying you shouldn't be primary, I was only explaining my reasoning for why (in character) I was assisting others and not you. It doesn't matter to me who is primary, and I think Gigermann's suggestion on the matter is worth doing or at least worth consideration.
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