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Post by WxMAN on Dec 1, 2012 12:54:15 GMT -6
For your convenience below is the breakdown of the chapters from the adventure on 30 Nov 2012 as it may allow you to better critique specific aspects inside the chapters as well as the adventure as a whole.
Included with each chapter is a basic summary as well as my thoughts.
No rush on the critique, but your feedback is much appreciated and will help me become a competent GM quicker.
Welcome To Kingsport
Chapter 1: The Front Gates Summary: PCs arrive at Kingsport, have to wait in line, possibly see some shady things. Have to deal with a zone of truth and alignment screening before they get inside.
GM Thoughts: They say to always open with a joke when giving a speech. I may as well of started with the line "What is the difference between a washing machine and a woman?" at a feminist convention. It fell completely flat and just confused more than entertained the players. It seems the reason was I didn't appropriately set the 'mood' of the scene and show my hand as to what I was attempting to lampoon. I was really really struggling to get comfortable in my first session.
Chapter 2: Barracks C, The Introduction Summary: PCs go to barracks c and find it very crowded with other 'parties'. Meet Reeve Chris Teffer who explains more specifically why the King is concerned of Nefaria. offer free food and lodging for the first night and dismiss everyone to the city.
GM Thoughts: This went a little better. I think the players better understood my tongue and cheek mindset once all the volunteers 'mysteriously' huddled in 'parties' just like the PCs and "Superman" was introduced. I found it difficult to balance humor with trying to pass along the 'seriousness' of the threat Nefaria poses to Kingsport
Chapter 3: Marketplace Mayhem Summary: PCs go to market because Maia forgot to bring her stuff. Beggers swarm. Meet Joshua Freeman the humble merchant. Halfings rob Maia and are captured after short chase.
GM Thoughts: This felt a little shoehorned, as I was hoping for the players to wish to explore this new town and it felt like I kind of had to 'force' the issue. I especially didn't know how to handle Uzi essentially sitting it out and how to keep him involved in some way. Chase cards worked alright, I was thinking they were a bit more detailed on the situations to allow for PC's to make up their own actions if they didn't like the one suggested. I felt like I was kind of dragging the players along in something they didn't necessarily want but t the same time I had yet to present a 'goal' for the PCs and they may have left them floundering
Chapter 4: Barracks C, Placement Exam Summary: PCs go to barracks c and receive 'a simple job' from Knight Night and Reeve Teffer. Admiral Ackbar gagged and bound in the closet.
GM Thoughts: Simple, quick, and easy run through. Finally gave the PC's a solid goal they could work towards.
Chapter 5: Th-th-th-the Bar Summary: PCs go to The Barley Bin to meet Gerard Parkes. Gerard poisons their 'free' drinks causing all of the PC's to go unconscious after a few minutes.
GM Thoughts: Felt a little 'cheap'. I was hoping the players would due a little more 'genre savvy' stuff and that maybe the map + 'thugs' would prepare the PC's for a fight and keep their suspicions of the barkeep low. 'Worked', I guess. Felt the players were a little 'unsure' if I just TPK'ed them and kinda left them on the back foot.
Chapter 6: Barracks C, Pencils Down Summary: PCs awake to Night and Teffer berating all of the 'failures' and waking them with ice cold water and humiliated.
GM Thoughts: I felt like an ASS. In my mind Teffer and Night set up all the parties for failure and then would do the 'drill sergeant' thing. Maybe Giger and Rigil are more used to that kind of military stuff, but I felt pretty bad as a GM brow beating the PCs for essentially falling into a darn near unwinnable trap and being first level.
Chapter 7: Boarding Summary: PCs get 'punished' with poor lodging and the worst patrol routes as they wait for their turn to be trained.
GM Thoughts: This was all off the cuff. Giger said it dragged a little but it was all on the fly. My 'plan' was: "The woman of the home opens the door, tells them food is on the table and shows them to their quarters but leaves them to their own devices." I was really impressed with how all the players, but especially ChrisIII really roleplayed it to the hilt and seemed genuinely interested in the family and I was feeding into that. Nice job Chris!
Chapter 8: Death From Below Summary: PCs start their first patrol. An 'old lady' lures the PCs into a fall trap where several thugs are there to ambush people to make more money. Very quickly dispatched. One runs and calls down the miners who lose one before giving up to the PCs.
GM Thoughts: Felt like it went rather well. Maybe a bit on the easy side but it could have gone very wrong very quick so I was generally happy with it. I was happy how the enemies had their 'morale' broken and gave up with intimidation coming from Alain and Uzi.
Overall Thoughts: I am generally happy with how it went. It started off very slow, some of that is because of my hesitance and newness to running, some of it is because the first session always has some hand holding as the PC's feel out there characters and the general plot. By the end I was feeling relatively good with itand the players seemed to have a reasonably decent time.
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Post by Rigil Kent on Dec 1, 2012 21:46:51 GMT -6
Overall, I thought it was a quite good "first session" for a rookie GM. There was some things that could have been handled better - the bar scenario worked because the PCs are all 1st level and newbies, but I fully understand how players might get frustrated when facing what looked like a no-win scenario - but apart from that, it was very well done. Breaking down by chapters: - 1 - This was my only real issue with the adventure. Exactly as you stated, it really needed a better ... hook (for lack of a better word), In retrospect, I see what you intended, but I think it just needed to be a little stronger. You fell into the same trap I've fallen into before, where you expected the players to remember something written a month or so ago. Afterward, I remembered it, but its been so long ...
- 2 - No complaints. I found the "Superman" thing to be amusing, especially when it hit Giger and his expression.
- 3 - WalMart D20 always sucks. In this case, I think you're being too hard on yourself, cause I thought it was fine. I found it amusing that Alain - who is the most physical of the three people present at the time - was bogged down on Card 1 because I couldn't roll higher than a 3.
- 4 - No issues.
- 5 - No-Win scenarios are always difficult. Players loath being punk'd like this, even though the situation was such that it made perfect sense. Fortunately, the PCs are all 1st level so it works that we fell for it and gave us added incentive for other stuff (e.g., Alain now being a teetotaler, which will definitely set him apart among normal people of this era.)
- 6 - Drill sergeants. I saw no problem with this. The PCs screwed up so they were yelled out.
- 7 - Good improvisation.
- 8 - Boo-yow. Here comes the badasses.
So ultimately, I have no complaints. Good pacing, interesting approach for 1st adventure...
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Post by Gigermann on Dec 3, 2012 9:39:50 GMT -6
- Slow starts are common, even for experienced GMs
- Advice: When you know a situation isn't important to the story, don't worry about too much details like names and dialogue—don't feel bad about glazing over it. This will likely take care of itself, though, as you start to find your comfort-zone
- Advice: Be aware when things are dragging, and when you recognize it, give it a kick. There's an old adage from writing pulp novels, that when things slow down too much, have someone burst through the door with a gun—no reason needed
- I think I need to rename my "Total-Party-Capture" scenario to "No-Win" scenario—more broadly inclusive. In the past, the advice I've given for those is, if possible, to give the Players a way to stick it to the enemy, even though they're going to lose. Depending on the specifics of the situation, that can involve sticking a bunch of mooks out for them to mow down first, or giving them a chance to hide something for later, or in this case, maybe a change to get a shot off on one of the thugs. Of course, you did say it was possible (if unlikely) to win this one, but I think it still counts
- Part 3 felt a bit shoe-horned to me as well, but sometimes it can be hard to put a finger on why. There have been a number of instances where McN has said that he felt like I had railroaded him, but he could never give me any specifics, except that he "felt like he didn't have a choice"—and maybe that's the only answer
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Post by WxMAN on Dec 3, 2012 21:25:12 GMT -6
interesting approach for 1st adventure... Do you mind elaborating on this a bit more? Advice: Be aware when things are dragging, and when you recognize it, give it a kick. There's an old adage from writing pulp novels, that when things slow down too much, have someone burst through the door with a gun I've heard that before, the trick is going to be becoming aware when things are dragging... I haven't developed that 'sense' yet, but I'm guessing it will come in time Of course, you did say it was possible (if unlikely) to win this one, but I think it still counts Yeah, there were a couple of ways to 'win' the scenario but they were intentionally difficult (not, 'throw pie at yeti' difficult, but difficult none the less). In the future I think I would find a way to do what you suggested and allow the PCs to 'go out swinging'. I just really didn't like the feeling that the PCs weren't given a fair shot and that is kind of how this scenario played out to me. Part 3 felt a bit shoe-horned to me as well, but sometimes it can be hard to put a finger on why. Sometimes things are just that way, we know them when we see them but you can't put a black and white definition on what is and isn't shoe-horned, forced, or railroaded... It happens, I'm sure this will hardly be the last time I put something 'forced' in there as it seems like something that can easily plague even the best GMs @chrisiii and LabRat... need your input still 50% of the group is only half of the story...
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Post by thedefiantbudah on Dec 4, 2012 9:07:47 GMT -6
i actually have no complaints about friday night's game, the bar was a little frustrating due to the kobyashi maru feel to it, but at the same time, we're the actors in the story and we may not always like where the story takes our characters, but we still enjoy the journey
i say "good show ol chap" and i'm looking forward to what happens next
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Post by Rigil Kent on Dec 4, 2012 9:50:51 GMT -6
interesting approach for 1st adventure... Do you mind elaborating on this a bit more? I just meant "holy crap. No rats? No orcs or goblins? How interesting..." It was meant in a good way.
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Post by WxMAN on Dec 4, 2012 10:19:19 GMT -6
I just meant "holy crap. No rats? No orcs or goblins? How interesting..." It was meant in a good way. Heh. I took it in a good way, more just interested in expectations vs reality (ie, we expected you to be a have more/less flavor text, but we didn't think you'd consider the weather patterns of the place). I actually took great pains to avoid the cliches of goblins and rats, so I do appreciate you recognizing that
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Post by Gigermann on Dec 4, 2012 10:24:45 GMT -6
but we didn't think you'd consider the weather patterns of the place) Speaking of that… In the Crusades game I ran for the Saturday group, set in 1173 AD, I was using weather report archives for 1973 for the regions-in-question—according to the research I did, the temp trends were close enough to the same for my purposes
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Post by LabRat on Dec 4, 2012 13:28:38 GMT -6
@chrisiii and LabRat... need your input still 50% of the group is only half of the story... Whoo! Last one to post! I just spent almost an hour typing out this long and thoughtful post...and the internet ate it...so you are getting the abridged version. Especially since I've essentially told you this outside of the boards... I don't think that I could really bring anything to the table that hasn't already been said previously by either your own admission or by other players. I thought it was good, really good, as in much better than I expected. Were there pacing issues, sure. Did some jokes not come off as expected...yep, but that's okay, you are learning. In fact, the first joke fell so flat that I didn't even see it as a failed joke, I just didn't see it as a joke at all...so I guess that could be construed as a positive. I know Rigil touched on this, but I really liked the fact that we didn't meet in a bar to go fight some Kobolds. It was a rather unique starting situation that still fit the theme of Generica...which is awesome. I also loved the way you handled housing/healing/rations. I found it a simple and elegant solution. I think what I liked most is that I actually felt like a first level character. I know that the bar scene was kinda a no win (or at least a very hard to win) situation. Still, we as players, should have been more cautious. I guess the fun part for me is that I was making first level mistakes so it felt more genuine to me. I guess the main thing you need to work on is just spending time being a GM. Experience the highs and lows, and all that. As I said, you did a good solid run, I think with some improvement on matters that have been addressed then you could become an awesome GM. Gold star!
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Post by Gigermann on Dec 5, 2012 12:17:21 GMT -6
I've been musing over the "railroading/no-win" situation, and I have some insight, but not a solution—I'll pass on the insight in hopes that someone may recognize the solution:
I have determined that "railroading"=GM-arbitrated/predetermined outcome (which, incidentally, also encompasses the "no-win" situation). Nobody likes it, even in a positive direction (recalling my own experience with the "non-lethal" campaign style—apparently they don't like it when you say they can't be killed either). Players want to feel like whatever happens is a result of their decisions. I think that's what McN was really pointing to with me, before—he felt like there was no choice. By the same token, I think this is what's been turning off N8 with the BDH issue—only one choice, the Good™ one. We have to remember that what the Players feel is true (to them), even if it's wrong; the answer is to take advantage of that.
GMing, in my experience, is like stage magic—illusion, misdirection, smoke & mirrors, etc. You see the same elements in computer-game design. You can have a situation where there are many outcomes, but it feels like railroading (Dead Rising?). You can also have a situation where there is only one possible outcome, but it feels open-ended (Half Life—for whatever reason, even though there was only one path, it never felt that way to me).
So, the answer I don't have is how one might have designed the "bar incident" with the feeling of free-will.
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Post by WxMAN on Dec 8, 2012 18:25:18 GMT -6
For your convenience below is the breakdown of the chapters from the adventure on 07 Dec 2012 as it may allow you to better critique specific aspects inside the chapters as well as the adventure as a whole.
Included with each chapter is a basic summary as well as my thoughts.
The Snowflake...
Chapter 1: Prologue Summary: Recap of last session, getting into current session. PC's get the map and treasure and head to Barracks C.
GM Thoughts: Went reasonably well. Was a short chapter so no issues were expected
Chapter 2: The Nogoodnics Summary: PCs go to Nikolas Nogood's house and bust heads
GM Thoughts: Went well. Didn't know how "kick down the front door" vs "sneaksy" the PCs were going to be, this told me.
Chapter 3: Homecoming Summary: PCs go home and each have their own little moments of thanks from the Thatchers
GM Thoughts: I added this in after last week's interest in the Thatchers and Walen's generosity to them. Was hoping to build a slightly stronger connection with the PCs to the Thatchers. Don't know how well that worked.
Chapter 4: The Prisoner Dilemma Summary: PCs are called to "rescue" other citizens from a Chuul - it turns out to be a test perpetrated by Sir Night and Reeve Teffer
GM Thoughts: This scene may of been a little selfish from me. I really wanted to know how the Players would react to a seemingly overpowered encounter that had some moral dilemmas which could have split the party a bit (ie, killing sapient babies). It didn't work well overall. The players became too invested in the "plan" on how to survive this and less on the moral implications involved. Should have used a less high CR monster but it was hard to find one.
Chapter 5: Chaos In The Streets Summary: Several ships crash onto the docks of Kingsport, spilling out Krenshar and Troglodytes to terrorize the town.
GM Thoughts: I needed to plan this encounter out a little more. It seems that while I hit the sweet spot as far as difficulty goes (players on the edge of death and each turn feels meaningful) there was a distinct lack of dread from civilians being essentially dragged down and slaughtered.. Maybe I shouldn't of let the dice land where they may (missing every single civilian attack) but that's what happened.
Overall Thoughts: I feel much more comfortable from the first session, though I would appreciate more specific feedback as far as what worked and what didn't and/or what you liked seeing, what you would like to see. Labrat already gave me a little suggestion to narrate the fights a little better... instead of just rolling a handful of dice say "The Krenshar swipes at you with two claws and then tries to bite you" which I will work on.
The timing of the adventure was good as I was where I thought I would be if we had another hour to go from the baby timeout. It may actually work out better since I only have enough thought out material for one more run and saving that extra bit from 07 Dec 2012 may allow me to not have to figure out a full adventure tie in from scratch...
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Post by Rigil Kent on Dec 8, 2012 19:04:10 GMT -6
Finding a happy medium between "the orc swings ... [ROLL] but misses" and "snarling through its broken tusk, the orc lashes out with its axe [ROLL] ... and you feel the hiss of air from the near miss right before the creature roars its fury at your nimbleness" is really hard. Sure, sticking descriptive text in an attack roll is always cool, but sometimes, your brain (as a GM) doesn't want to engage which makes it hard to do the descriptive stuff. I've been doing this for a while and quite often (as you can attest) it boils down to a simple "he swings and misses." For me, the biggest help is having the players get involved - if, in the above-mentioned orc attack, one of my players jumps in with something vaguely descriptive, I'll latch onto that. Two remarks: - Chapter 4 - in retrospect, I see what you were doing here, but PCs hate Kobayashi Maru scenarios. I'm not real sure how that situation could have been handled better - I think it was entirely believable that the characters were more focused and worried about survival than moral implications, especially once they knew the critter could rip them apart. Given that the chuul is an abomination (literally as it turns out), I think that scenario would have worked better if the threat were more ... humanoid. Like ... a subrace of humans or dwarves or something that the players (and characters) could more easily relate to rather than a monstrous critter. As it was, we were like "ok, it can talk. So what? It ate these people!" Does that make sense?
- Chapter 5 - my recommendation there would be "don't get hung up on die rolls for nameless NPCs." If you want to get across that the attackers are very dangerous threats, let them (the attackers) wade through civvies and some other Guards so the PCs can see how dangerous they are. Don't get stuck in the trap of "the dice have been rolled. I must obey them." IMO, that way madness lies. I think I would have had the PCs reach the combat zone just in time to see the bad guys kill some people (having us be the reinforcements for a heroic last stand by some doomed guards would have been a great way to handle that) - also, while it might have added an extra layer of complexity you might be disinclined to handle, you might have included some panicking civvies getting in the way or perhaps there being so many that they're getting in the way.
There's my thoughts. Again, I thought it went extremely well, especially for a GM with only one previous session under your belt. You're doing great!
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Post by thedefiantbudah on Dec 9, 2012 15:09:26 GMT -6
i really enjoyed the session and even liked the moral dilemma (i'm really enjoying the making the characters think as opposed to kill'em all)
I agree with rigil on the part about letting the baddies tear into some npc's, i'd only worry about rolling to hit with either PC's or NPC's involved with the party
it overall flowed well throughout the session (not including the baby invasion) and once again, I came away from the night really enjoying it overall
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Post by Gigermann on Dec 10, 2012 9:35:38 GMT -6
- It definitely felt like you are getting more comfortable behind the screen
- Good balance on the troggie/krenshar fight
- I've advised before to never ask for a die-roll if you aren't prepared for the consequences. Goes the same for "scenery"—if civvies need to die to get the point across, then don't roll for it. The only time arbitrating is a bad thing is if the PCs are actively trying to prevent it at the moment, and have a chance to do so
- The Chuul-test shines the spotlight on a GM dilemma: Players tend to think along the lines of "the GM won't stick anything in front of us we can't actually defeat," which can result in some less-than-optimal decisions in the face of a too-tough adversary—personally, I was thinking its weakened state was the key, and that it was possible to defeat it. This is the real reason, in the Temple game, that we all disbelieved the reports of the dragon over the moat-house, that resulted in the oft-mentioned arc-welding. There's no easy way to get the point across that it is intentionally "too hard" without meta-gaming it, except to let nature take its course—and that can end badly, unless you're prepared to improvise a way out. Otherwise, I did think it was a fairly clever test, on their part
- There are some tools out there to help with fight narration—you may want to dig around. It isn't strictly necessary, though—just gravy
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Post by LabRat on Dec 10, 2012 11:16:50 GMT -6
Whoo! Last one to post...again...
So all in all I thought that it was very good. I guess I will just get to the issues that are considered "hot button" for this particular session. The Chuul experience was pretty awesome. I know most players don't like it when their GM puts them into situation where they can be punk'd but you integrated a great reason for doing so. I like the idea of the Reeve testing our different reactions/skills/how we handle certain situations because in the end it is reflective in game (and to some extent out of game) in determining how our group is going to act. It can be noted that this is one of the few times where I am looking forward to figuring out of future encounters with you as GM are "tests" or the real deal. It gives an extra dimension of playing that is fun for me.
Regarding the fight narration. The only thing I commented on outside of the boards, was that I just wanted a little bit of narration to what was actually going on. I remember that I asked you why you were rolling three D20s simultaneously, because you never really said what was going on in terms of actions. It could have been as simple as "they are going to attack you with two claws and a bite". Or "I just rolled a potential crit, I am going to confirm it" I was just merely pointing out that there wasn't a lot of communication, so for me the fights got a bit muddled. You dont' have to be overly descriptive, just something better than ::roll:: does 17 hit? ::player says yes:: ::roll: take 6 points damage.
Your balance on the troglodyte encounter was fantastic. I always enjoy encounters where you have to squeeze your butt cheeks in the end because you could possibly be in trouble, only to breathe a sigh of relief when the last bad guy falls. It was really well played.
I also like the interaction between our host family and the PCs. Its a nice touch and gives the future players some NPCs to play with a bit. They could be developed into some pretty strong characters, which is always fun.
I think that Gm-ing has done you a lot of good personally. Honestly, I didn't know you had this blossoming creative side that is being revealed with each session. I am rather impressed, and you have set the bar reeeaaallly high for when it is my turn to run.
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Post by WxMAN on Dec 13, 2012 9:37:28 GMT -6
Finding a happy medium between [nate:paraphrase] "basic and over the top" Yeah, which is what labrat was talking about. I need to focus on getting to at least basic descriptions because, as labrat noted, it became me silently rolling and saying hit or not by the end of the night last time.... I need to remember that I am the primary 'story teller', but unfortunately I've never been all that great descriptions. It is something I will work on for the back half of my run I think that scenario would have worked better if the threat were more ... humanoid. Like ... a subrace of humans or dwarves or something that the players (and characters) could more easily relate to rather than a monstrous critter. That was actually the original plan, but then the a few things happened. 1. I saw the Chuul and thought it was rocking looking 2. I have been trying to avoid 'orcs and goblins' and felt that subraces were essentially the same 'trap' 3. My social experiment side of the brain kicked on and figured I'd test the old sci-fi issue with making too far from humanoid that they are unrelatable to humans due to issues finding related 'social cues'... The people eating was a further complicating issue, that is its food source, it isn't personal, humans just aren't on the top of the food chain.. I was hoping the babies would further complicate things as how can one say these babies are 'born evil', though that may not be the case due to its aberration heritage... Don't get stuck in the trap of "the dice have been rolled. I must obey them." IMO, that way madness lies. Yes, I think that is a by product of my left brain 'the rules are the rules and the dice are law'... its been eroding away ever so slightly with my run, but as was forecast by the veterans "nature/reflex takes over" sometimes Again, I thought it went extremely well, especially for a GM with only one previous session under your belt. You're doing great! Thanks! Players tend to think along the lines of "the GM won't stick anything in front of us we can't actually defeat," Yeah, in this campaign I don't plan on throwing anything 'impossible' to defeat... though when I start running on my own I may throw the caveat out there that there are things above your abilities, tricky/clever thinking may win the day but sometimes discretion is the better part of valor.. We'll see, it is a learning experience.. I'd also be sure to appropriately warn you of 'areas of civility vs wildness' in a general way, assuming fantasy though similar ideas can be adapted throughout other genres as well (though we saw how well that works with the aforementioned arc welding scenario)
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Post by Gigermann on Dec 17, 2012 10:36:16 GMT -6
Misc comment for Session 12.15.12: - Excellent cliffhanger (house-bombs)
- The Bauer/Troggie situation felt a little "clumsy" for some reason I can't accurately define. A couple of things spring to mind
- We need to establish just what level of "authority" we have, as militia-cops. Whatever that authority level is should provide a bonus to "social engineering" attempts (and occasionally, a penalty, amongst non-law-abiding types)
- Having Bauer get intimidated, and then trying to counter-intimidate didn't feel right. After-the -fact, I discovered the Intimidation "staredown," which might have been more appropriate
- Whether or not it was intended/accurate, I think I would say that it felt like the GM "wanted" it to end a certain way, and it wasn't going there—which is something we've all see eleventy-billion times; a common GMing dilemma
- Not specific to the current GM, we do tend to run into confusion resulting from miscommunication of basic facts of a scene—either inadequately described, or understood. I think we could all stand to improve that a bit. This is why "flavor text" exists as an RPG trope
All I can think of, for now
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Post by Rigil Kent on Dec 17, 2012 11:05:41 GMT -6
Yeah, the confusion about the exact level of our authority keeps getting me messed up. I realize we're only 1st level and "militia" but we're acting as city guards so I keep expecting to have that level of authority. Character-related, I'm still trying to find the happy medium with my PCs' alignment as I'm not totally happy with him just being the "The law is the law is the law" guy - he's a smart guy (14), but I fully intend on him absolutely refusing to tell a lie or even deceive. He intends to be unyielding, even to the point of death, which will certainly lead to some interesting RP opportunities. So other players should be advised about that. I know that you're planning on another session as GM, but the ending? That is exactly the kind of "end of my run, on to yours" kind of ending we should shoot for so the next GM gets to resolve it.
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Post by WxMAN on Dec 17, 2012 19:39:05 GMT -6
The Bauer/Troggie situation felt a little "clumsy" for some reason I can't accurately define. A couple of things spring to mind I think this was primarily due to me realizing the time was short so I had to either squeeze it in but rush it or end the night early by taking it out. Neither situation was ideal so I kept it in, but drastically simplified/shortened it We need to establish just what level of "authority" we have, as militia-cops. My idea was essentially civilians << you < guards < military.. Though as always, the upper crust of the civilians tend to have certain things... overlooked... Having Bauer get intimidated, and then trying to counter-intimidate didn't feel right. I agree, I meant for it to kind of be a stand off stare down thing but I didn't think of it quick enough to respond to Alain... I probably should have just let it go as was but Bauer's motivation needed to be established better and the PCs needed to know why he wasn't just going to hand it over... Whether or not it was intended/accurate, I think I would say that it felt like the GM "wanted" it to end a certain way, and it wasn't going there. With this encounter I had planned for multiple paths the PCs would handle it, how you did so was considered so it wasn't like you were going against the grain... I think it all boiled down to me shoehorning it in, though in a more simplified version than originally conceived... Not specific to the current GM, we do tend to run into confusion resulting from miscommunication of basic facts of a scene—either inadequately described, or understood. I think we could all stand to improve that a bit. This is why "flavor text" exists as an RPG trope Yes, it is something we all need to work on, I need to figure out, for me, how to incorporate it naturally into the flow of things so it isn't everyone stop and stare at me while I read a paragraph Character-related, I'm still trying to find the happy medium with my PCs' alignment as I'm not totally happy with him just being the "The law is the law is the law" guy - he's a smart guy (14), but I fully intend on him absolutely refusing to tell a lie or even deceive. He intends to be unyielding, even to the point of death, which will certainly lead to some interesting RP opportunities. So other players should be advised about that. While this won't likely affect me, who plans to be the mostly silent and kindly barbarian... Pulling something that huge on the other PC's isn't all that fair, especially when they have already built their characters in certain ways... Furthermore, there are a lot of issues with saying you won't mislead or tell lies (or let anyone else for that matter). Unless you have specific knowledge something is a lie I'd assume you'd have to roll a sense motive vs the other person's check. Even then, what about lies by omission? What about lies due to lack of knowledge ('this man is innocent' when he isn't though you don't know that)? Would you ever feint in combat (as that is 'lying' about where you are going to strike)? Would you lie (including by omission) to the BBEG of Nefaria if he captures you and asks all of Kingsport's weakness / troop placements? And then you have the whole Obi-Wan scenario of "What I said is true... from a certain point of view". I know some of those examples are extreme, but lying is such a 'grey'/perception based thing that it makes saying you won't lie/mislead or tolerate anyone who does is also extreme... Also, I think as far as RP'ing it, you may wish to slowly incorporate it into your character.. such as he starts striving to be an honest person as he progresses towards knighthood, but not a 'flip of a light switch' three sessions in...
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Post by Gigermann on Dec 17, 2012 23:28:57 GMT -6
I think this was primarily due to me realizing the time was short so I had to either squeeze it in but rush it or end the night early by taking it out. Neither situation was ideal so I kept it in, but drastically simplified/shortened it Sounds about right. Makes me wonder how it would've gone in the Director's Cut
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Post by WxMAN on Dec 18, 2012 9:45:01 GMT -6
Sounds about right. Makes me wonder how it would've gone in the Director's Cut More explosions. A surprise twist. A love story. One or two mishandled political statements. And a cameo by a guy who was famous for something a long time ago, but that is really all he is known for.
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Post by Rigil Kent on Dec 18, 2012 10:20:48 GMT -6
Dammit ... where's the Like button for that level of sarcasm? LOL
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Post by Rigil Kent on Dec 18, 2012 12:45:03 GMT -6
My idea was essentially civilians << you < guards < military.. Though as always, the upper crust of the civilians tend to have certain things... overlooked... The question persists, though: exactly how much authority do we have as "militia guards"?
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Post by WxMAN on Dec 18, 2012 13:01:49 GMT -6
The question persists, though: exactly how much authority do we have as "militia guards"? Obviously I should have discussed this is more detail and/or given a better run down via Teffer or Mrak... Something to note for my next run (and all future runs) As far as I had considered it, you have all the normal authority granted to modern day police: you can arrest, cite, and even use deadly force if necessary (though there will be an investigation if deadly force was used). Though you do have to follow orders from higher guards and the military. Is that what y'all needed to better understand my mindset? Again, I should have better clarified things and will try and fix it going forward. Luckily you guys never really went outside your authority or I would have said something to that affect in game time.
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Post by Gigermann on Dec 18, 2012 13:19:11 GMT -6
Again, I should have better clarified things and will try and fix it going forward. Luckily you guys never really went outside your authority or I would have said something to that affect in game time. So, full, official Legal Enforcement Powers as a "regular" guard, just subject to "regular" guard hierarchy.
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Post by WxMAN on Dec 18, 2012 13:33:40 GMT -6
So, full, official Legal Enforcement Powers as a "regular" guard, just subject to "regular" guard hierarchy. Exactly! Though like I said previously there are some members of society who tend to have things... overlooked do to their influence and messing with them (especially since y'all are new in town) would be bad for you.. Fun as all get out for story hooks/consequences for the players/GM, but it would make life rough on the PCs Unfortunately it probably won't matter much since Friday is the last run as essentially guard level work... Oh well, it is still good to know what needs better explanation.. It is awfully easy to just 'assume' the players know something since its in the GM's head but never actually given out for their consumption
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Post by Gigermann on Dec 18, 2012 13:40:22 GMT -6
Unfortunately it probably won't matter much since Friday is the last run as essentially guard level work... Oh well, it is still good to know what needs better explanation.. It is awfully easy to just 'assume' the players know something since its in the GM's head but never actually given out for their consumption Not unlike the "flavor text" thing, it really is better to err in favor of too much information than too little—and, as has been said, it's not a noob-specific issue
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Post by thedefiantbudah on Dec 23, 2012 11:13:22 GMT -6
i just want to let wxman know...he sucks lol..jk ...why did you have to start and finish your run with us getting tricked? lol
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Post by Rigil Kent on Dec 23, 2012 22:24:47 GMT -6
For a newbie GM, I think WxMAN did an excellent job. He kept us guessing throughout and did a great job of avoiding the usual "killing rats" and "fighting kobolds/goblins" you normally see with 1st level adventures. I honestly have no complaints. Very well done.
The bar is high for Giger's follow-up.
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Post by thedefiantbudah on Dec 24, 2012 10:31:31 GMT -6
don't get me wrong, i'm not complaining lol...i think he did an awesome job as well, looking forward to what giger has in store
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