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Post by thedefiantbudah on May 4, 2013 20:53:04 GMT -6
I'm ok with it,will try to get the portal updated to... even if I'm a little worried about the potential death of me character lol
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Post by WxMAN on May 4, 2013 21:58:18 GMT -6
I'm ok with it,will try to get the portal updated to... All I really need ASAP is a quick rundown of a few things: 1. Did you ever define which direction we all traveled from Kingsport for this? If not, then I will handle it because I hope it is to the NW. 2. Can I get the entry for the Wendigo? What book/page? 3. How many Wendigos were attacking the village (and what was its name... Timberwood? Timbertown? Timberlane)? 4. What happened just before the explosion during the wedding? Was the queen stabbed? That whole retcon/handoff was really confusing to me... Even if I'm a little worried about the potential death of me character lol Already have that taken care of ;D
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Post by Rigil Kent on May 4, 2013 23:08:09 GMT -6
What happened just before the explosion during the wedding? Was the queen stabbed? That whole retcon/handoff was really confusing to me... Sorry about that. "PCs rush to aid king, queen and princess. Sir Brighton suddenly rams sword through the Queen! She dies!"
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Post by thedefiantbudah on May 5, 2013 3:50:48 GMT -6
1. Never defined, but North or Northwest would be a good bet as it would flow with the weather change
2. I honestly didn't have an entry for it, the mod provided all the stats for it, if you like I can forward you the stuff I have for it
3. Timberway, and I never had a set amount in mind so it would be at your discretion
4. Queen stabbed, explosive thrown, Princess grabbed and pulled through doorway, PCs swept out of the way, and BOOM
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Post by WxMAN on May 5, 2013 9:32:17 GMT -6
2. I honestly didn't have an entry for it, the mod provided all the stats for it, if you like I can forward you the stuff I have for it Yes please, I'll need the stats to properly run them
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Post by Rigil Kent on May 5, 2013 10:55:16 GMT -6
The Wendigo is in the Fiend Folio. Do you have that, WxMAN?
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Post by WxMAN on May 5, 2013 11:16:30 GMT -6
The Wendigo is in the Fiend Folio. Do you have that, WxMAN? Yep, thanks Rigil... I'm good Chris, I think I have what I need
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Post by WxMAN on May 5, 2013 19:27:41 GMT -6
Who is the Chamberlain (actor)?
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Post by Gigermann on May 5, 2013 19:46:28 GMT -6
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Post by WxMAN on May 7, 2013 18:25:36 GMT -6
Current time of day when you left off Chris?
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Post by thedefiantbudah on May 7, 2013 22:17:16 GMT -6
never thought about the time of day, but figured it would be around midday...overcast, high 30's, wind out of the north about 10-15mph, and about 80% humidity
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Post by WxMAN on May 8, 2013 20:50:31 GMT -6
never thought about the time of day, but figured it would be around midday...overcast, high 30's, wind out of the north about 10-15mph, and about 80% humidity That's awesome ;D
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Post by Gigermann on May 10, 2013 10:04:28 GMT -6
For the record: I really don't remember that we ever saw the city burning, just that we were told (apparently by a doppleganger)
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Post by Rigil Kent on May 18, 2013 12:05:51 GMT -6
Kicking off the decision discussion: there is absolutely no way Alain will choose to side with Mrak. Yes, he acknowledges that there is some corruption at the top that needs to be rooted out, but abandoning the Law entirely is not an option for him or his moral code. In fact, he very likely now looks as Mrak as equally guilty for everything bad that the beguiler dude (name escapes me and I'm too lazy to look it up) does.
If the group as a whole decides that we need to side with Mrak, though, I can spin up a replacement character for Alain as needed.
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Post by thedefiantbudah on May 18, 2013 14:56:37 GMT -6
Being that I'm True Neutral...I'm pretty sure I'll go whichever way the wind blows, however we would have sworn an allegiance to the Kingdom and the King (I'm guessing this would have happened when we joined the Guard/Military) so I can't see Walen breaking that oath...but he wouldn't dismiss the information Mrak gave them (being a Bard, he knows that information is quite valuable) knowing that Alain would abide by the Law and back the Reeve, Walen would be more likely to back Alain ...he might attempt to sway Uzi and Maia if they choose to back Mrak knowing it will be a "hung jury" as it were and potentially split the party, and there's too much at stake
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Post by LabRat on May 19, 2013 8:59:27 GMT -6
As of right now, I am really struggling with regards to what Maia would do. If things were normal, she would want to go with Mrak. However, N8 put a kink in that plan (and a very well done job I might add), by making one of Zebulon's henchmen her father. Hadrian Silverkin is essential P.E. No.1 in Maia's eyes so that really, really complicates things. She is struggling because she knows that innocent people are dying at the hands of Kingsport officials. The evening spent with Uzi as he talked to Dr. Feelgood, affected her greatly. As well as having to subdue essentially innocent civies. She knows that once they went through those prison gates that they won't ever come back, and that is really hard pill to swallow.
If she goes with Mrak she will have to work with Zebulon, who is a scoundrel, as well as her father. Her father is a nightmare, and the reason why she ran away from home and joined the militia in the first place. She might have faith in Mrak, but knowing how her father works, they might be able to turn, Mrak into a person of ill repute, such as themselves. At best she would be waiting for the time where Zebulon will turn on them if/when things are fixed. At worst she would find herself in a pit of corruption that she won't be able to escape from.
As of right now, she would be trying to think of a third option, because as far as she's concerned, there isn't a lesser evil to choose from. They are both equally bad, and she would have to sacrifice a part of her soul no matter what the group decides.
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Post by Gigermann on May 19, 2013 9:45:14 GMT -6
…Zebulon, who is a scoundrel, as well as her father.
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Post by WxMAN on May 19, 2013 11:56:55 GMT -6
Kicking off the decision discussion: there is absolutely no way Alain will choose to side with Mrak. Yes, he acknowledges that there is some corruption at the top that needs to be rooted out, but abandoning the Law entirely is not an option for him or his moral code. In fact, he very likely now looks as Mrak as equally guilty for everything bad that the beguiler dude (name escapes me and I'm too lazy to look it up) does. Playing devil's advocate: You would have a reasonable suspicion the chamberlain and Sir Bryce are essentially behind the martial law decree, so siding with Reeve will mean you will be carrying out some bad stuff on behalf of Bryce/Chamberlain... arresting Cleric Feelgood is just the beginning. It is a law, but it is one brought about and controlled by men who'll gladly use a law to further their own gains - and you will be complicit in it... and if Alain is so willing to equate Mrak as guilty of all of Zebulon's sins, then by you siding with Bryce/Chamberlain, you are also guilty of all of their sins.... We've also seen Alain inexplicably break from his lawful nature in the past when it suits him.... Being that I'm True Neutral...I'm pretty sure I'll go whichever way the wind blows, however we would have sworn an allegiance to the Kingdom and the King (I'm guessing this would have happened when we joined the Guard/Military) so I can't see Walen breaking that oath...but he wouldn't dismiss the information Mrak gave them (being a Bard, he knows that information is quite valuable) knowing that Alain would abide by the Law and back the Reeve, Walen would be more likely to back Alain ...he might attempt to sway Uzi and Maia if they choose to back Mrak knowing it will be a "hung jury" as it were and potentially split the party, and there's too much at stake Playing devil's advocate: You are True Neutral. Your oath to king and country should mean not much to you, especially if you see a better option for your own advancement. Being a Bard you've likely seen many laws, many of which contradict based on where you are at and are not beholden to the laws but do respect that some laws are useful... I also doubt you'd be so willing to be led around by anyone (esp Alain) unless it suited you at the time If she goes with Mrak she will have to work with Zebulon, who is a scoundrel, as well as her father. Her father is a nightmare, and the reason why she ran away from home and joined the militia in the first place. She might have faith in Mrak, but knowing how her father works, they might be able to turn, Mrak into a person of ill repute, such as themselves. At best she would be waiting for the time where Zebulon will turn on them if/when things are fixed. At worst she would find herself in a pit of corruption that she won't be able to escape from. As of right now, she would be trying to think of a third option, because as far as she's concerned, there isn't a lesser evil to choose from. They are both equally bad, and she would have to sacrifice a part of her soul no matter what the group decides. Playing devil's advocate: Maia will realize that siding with Mrak/Zebulon/Her Father will put her in very close space with her father a lot of the time... He will try and manipulate her and bring out her inner badness... being a solid manipulator himself, he may even be able to do it, especially with Zebulon's help, and she may become essentially her fathers daughter despite her struggle against it... Maia is very charismatic and it would be difficult and take time, but I'm guessing her father doesn't much care to lose and wouldn't be above doing some really dark shit to 'force her' towards him As Uzi pointed out, there is the third option: pay lip service to Mrak/Reeve and then bug the hell out of Kingsport ASAP... None of the three choices are going to be 'easy' and each have their own rewards and pitfalls... I also have no particular preference in mind as to which way you go since I will have plenty of time to generate a story before we run again no matter which way you all fall
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Post by Gigermann on May 19, 2013 12:15:37 GMT -6
As Uzi pointed out, there is the third option: pay lip service to Mrak/Reeve and then bug the hell out of Kingsport ASAP... That's not quite what I meant. I meant to support neither Reeve nor Mrak, and try to solve the issue on our own, as a third-party.
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Post by WxMAN on May 19, 2013 13:23:41 GMT -6
I think Uzi would be wise enough that paying lip service to either person still makes you an 'enemy' of the other... and that lip service will only last as long as the first time you fail to do what they ask of you (which will likely not be long)
Likewise, saying to them both essentially "screw you guys".. Mrak will at minimum be disappointed, Teffer at minimum will consider it equivalent to insubordination... Being members of the militia you can't just shirk that duty without consequences (and likely charges)
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Post by Gigermann on May 19, 2013 14:33:42 GMT -6
There is no "safe" or "right" option, not one. Whatever we do will have our heads on one chopping block or another, and every one of the characters will end up challenging his principles (AKA Alignment). It's kinda like modern US politics: Democrat, Republican, Third-Party—none of them will amount to any good.
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Post by Rigil Kent on May 19, 2013 15:32:42 GMT -6
Kicking off the decision discussion: there is absolutely no way Alain will choose to side with Mrak. Yes, he acknowledges that there is some corruption at the top that needs to be rooted out, but abandoning the Law entirely is not an option for him or his moral code. In fact, he very likely now looks as Mrak as equally guilty for everything bad that the beguiler dude (name escapes me and I'm too lazy to look it up) does. Playing devil's advocate: You would have a reasonable suspicion the chamberlain and Sir Bryce are essentially behind the martial law decree, so siding with Reeve will mean you will be carrying out some bad stuff on behalf of Bryce/Chamberlain... arresting Cleric Feelgood is just the beginning. It is a law, but it is one brought about and controlled by men who'll gladly use a law to further their own gains - and you will be complicit in it... and if Alain is so willing to equate Mrak as guilty of all of Zebulon's sins, then by you siding with Bryce/Chamberlain, you are also guilty of all of their sins.... We've also seen Alain inexplicably break from his lawful nature in the past when it suits him.... Countering this argument: Alain has gone to the Church with his concerns and was advised to "have faith" in the king and the law. As he respects the clergy of the Sun God thus far (they at least haven't screwed him over), he is far less likely to just throw in with a man who, at the very least, has officially allied himself with scum. I'm not sure how you make the leap from "if Alain is so willing to equate Mrak as guilty of all of Zebulon's sins, then by you siding with Bryce/Chamberlain, you are also guilty of all of their sins" though - yes, there are strong suspicions about the Chamberlain and Sir Bryce, but at the moment, that's all they are: suspicions. We have proof, from Mrak's own lips, that he is working, of his own free will, with this Zebulon character who we observed firsthand instigating a riot. We have no such verifiable proof regarding the Chancellor (especially since Alain was not present during the questioning of Father Christmas.) The instant an order comes down from on high to start murdering every firstborn son (or equivalent Evil act), that's when he rallies the other guards and knights against the leadership and leads a revolution or coup. (Ugh. Probably to establish Princess Damsel as Queen. The horror!) I expect Alain will begin demanding proof from higher ups any time he is placed in a position that challenges his moral codes and will refuse to obey orders he considers illegitimate. Henceforth, when he is instructed to bring in a person, he will demand presentation of the proof and will just as likely also look into serving as a justiciar or arbiter for those accused since he is more interested in seeing justice done. He is of high birth and a knight now (which works well with Sir Bryce making the usual Villain mistake of taking an action that will come back and bite them in the ass down the road) so any instance of his loyalty and/or honor being called in question is one where he can demand a trial by combat. Ideally, he would like to become the equivalent of Odo from DS9, where his refusal to yield on certain principles (likely Justice) leads to respect, however grudging, from all sides. If he manages to obtain some sort of proof of wrongdoing by those in charge, I'm sure there are at least some Generic Laws (tm) that could be used to resolve that. For that matter, I think it would be interesting (from my perspective, of course; other PCs mileage may vary) if Alain became the ... face (for lack of a better word) of the other Sword Knights opposed to Sir Bryce (and possibly also the guards like the one who was complaining about being ordered to raise a sword against fellow citizens.) I would very much like Alain to become known as a beacon for Order and Justice. There's also the fact that he has an outstanding Challenge to Sir Bryce still awaiting the end of the year and a day from the issuing of said challenge. One thing I am concerned about here: you've set up a no win scenario and, from past experience, if the scenario is truly impossible to navigate, it can lead to some serious frustration on the parts of the players. I know you like the whole "moral challenge" thing, but we don't want to push it too far. We've also reached a point in the game where it will become progressively harder to believe that the PCs can just randomly go on adventures which can definitely affect what kind of game it is. If, for example, Budah wants to run a dungeon crawl, its potentially more difficult to accomplish now that the PCs are more tied to the city and its politics. The characters are, to your great credit, becoming swept up in the politics of the land as they advance in ability and reputation, so their choices are, naturally, becoming more limited. As it stands, it's actually kind of hard to believe that Bruno would be allowed to reintegrate if we, as it appears, end up sticking with the Guards because Bruno is an elf. Yeah, this probably should have been parked in the GM Feedback section, and I congratulate you on putting before the characters a very interesting decision point, but at the moment, I think my initial stance - Stand with Reeve and Law/Order - is still the one that Alain would follow. He is, after all, still less concerned about Good and Evil than many of the other PCs (for now, anyway.) I probably will defer my alignment shift to Lawful Good and entrance into the Paladin class for the time being. He'll probably shift into the Knight class for a couple of levels...
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Post by thedefiantbudah on May 19, 2013 16:26:45 GMT -6
Playing devil's advocate: You are True Neutral. Your oath to king and country should mean not much to you, especially if you see a better option for your own advancement. Being a Bard you've likely seen many laws, many of which contradict based on where you are at and are not beholden to the laws but do respect that some laws are useful... I also doubt you'd be so willing to be led around by anyone (esp Alain) unless it suited you at the time This is true, but a Bard is also about reputation, and it wouldn’t look good for him to make an oath and back out of it…also, can’t see him siding with someone he just shot (and not sure that Z would be without some malice toward Walen for the same reason) and I would back Alain due to the likelihood that he’s the safe bet…and he seems to be “sturdier” of the group lol…worst case…a little charm person on either Uzi or Maia if needed to “tip” the balance
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Post by WxMAN on May 19, 2013 17:41:23 GMT -6
though - yes, there are strong suspicions about the Chamberlain and Sir Bryce, but at the moment, that's all they are: suspicions. We have proof, from Mrak's own lips, that he is working, of his own free will, with this Zebulon character who we observed firsthand instigating a riot. We have no such verifiable proof regarding the Chancellor (especially since Alain was not present during the questioning of Father Christmas.) Didn't Alain confront Sir Bryce after finding evidence that he was pimping out knights? So you know he is guilty of that, you also know he is the one in charge of the martial law.... Also, all you saw Zebulon do was make a speech about holding guards hostage until such time the martial law is ended - the same guards you saw murder civilians that were using non-lethal force... You don't know who started the riot or why... There's also the fact that he has an outstanding Challenge to Sir Bryce still awaiting the end of the year and a day from the issuing of said challenge. Yes, and you had better believe he is salivating at the chance of getting rid of you - nice and quiet like... One thing I am concerned about here: you've set up a no win scenario and, from past experience, if the scenario is truly impossible to navigate, it can lead to some serious frustration on the parts of the players. I know you like the whole "moral challenge" thing, but we don't want to push it too far. Of course, I'm not sure though what "impossible to navigate" means in this case... Any choice the group makes will have good and bad consequences - I prefer campaigns where decisions you make actually matter and have consequences to the player and to the environment around them... So no decision the group makes will be "sorry you lose" but, if the players allow it, their characters will be impacted... If that is not something the group appreciates (ie games where their characters are impacted and grow, sometimes in ways they didn't foresee when making the characters) I understand, but think that will be a major loss of opportunity for the "RP" part of an "RPG" As it stands, it's actually kind of hard to believe that Bruno would be allowed to reintegrate if we, as it appears, end up sticking with the Guards because Bruno is an elf. Currently the guards do have some elves, but there is an undercurrent of 'racism' currently going on amongst some of the populace and even inside the military... So it won't be impossible to rejoin y'all, but there are going to be consequences for being an elf at this time worst case…a little charm person on either Uzi or Maia if needed to “tip” the balance Good luck, Maia has a ridiculous Will save and Uzi gets a +2 bonus against spells... and once it wears off, you are going to need to have your dancing shoes on if they realize you manipulated them like that
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Post by Rigil Kent on May 19, 2013 18:20:16 GMT -6
you also know he is the one in charge of the martial law.... We do? I thought that was established as the Chancellor, with Bryce as his number two. No, actually, Alain saw two guys who were vastly outnumbered by an enraged mob doing what they thought was necessary to survive. It means "fucked if you do, fucked if you don't." Which is kind of the scenario we have before us at the moment. In general, I tend to prefer those sorts of games as well, but to be perfectly honest, I'm not sure if FGLE is the campaign for that given it was mostly intended to be a round robin where the newbies get to cut their teeth on GMing. I admit that I'm probably about 60% or greater responsible for this with my screwed up run, but I must admit to some concern that we've turned the campaign world into a complete mess. Um ... all games are like that. I'd argue that other systems (GURPS, for example) are better at handling out of left field character evolution, but unless a player creates a 20 level plan and absolutely refuses to deviate from it, all campaigns have the characters change in ways not originally foreseen. This is another thing that could be an issue. What if, for example, I end up running next and don't want to bother with the racism? (Probably because I already have a game where it seems like I'm "oppressing" a character race/class that you run). In retrospect, I think we should have had a rule where all major status quo changes were approved beforehand (and yeah, I was definitely overtly guilty of the big changes thing) because the campaign has sort of evolved to the point where we really need just a single GM to take over who has a cool idea about where to take the game... Of course, that's presuming we actually come back to this game. Yeah, I would strongly recommend a different take. Using a spell like that on a fellow PC is a damned fine way for that PC (and the others) to punk the crap out of you. God help you if you charm Bruno into doing something - the minute it wears off and he realized you jacked with his head? I suspect he'd be power attacking the snot out of your character...
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Post by LabRat on May 19, 2013 19:27:39 GMT -6
I am going to essentially ignore what you've guys been talking about simply because it is based around subjectivity and just get back to the matter at hand. Not that I don't mind a good discussion, but to me, the points are moot.
I've been thinking a lot about this, and after using Nate as a soundboard (mostly me stewing about what my character would do), I would like to propose something that might work. Maia is going to take a huge gamble and try to appeal to Teffer's sense of "goodness", for lack of a better term. I believe Teffer is in the same moral dilemma that Alain is in. He believes that following the law is something that makes up his honorific code, however, I think that he struggles with the morality of the situation. I also believe that there have been times where Teffer could have gone after Mrak or even succeeded in bringing him in, but he hasn't. Part of him aligns himself with Mrak's actions as being justified, even though he would never do it himself.
This would give Maia an opportunity to persuade Teffer that he could reserve us for hand picked assignments. Meaning that we wouldn't be reduced to thugs in order to bring in someone like Dr. Feelgood or essentially innocent civilians, instead Teffer could use us to bring in people who are guilty of true crimes (like Zebulon). Maia would also ask Teffer for some leeway to conduct their own investigations (such as figuring out if the King of the Elves really did those crimes or is a doppleganger). I guess we are asking to be relegated to special ops, and I think if we spin it right Teffer would let us. Is is unconventional? Absolutely, but now is a pretty chaotic time and I think the rules can be bent a little bit. I think in the end, Teffer is the key for resolving this dilemma.
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Post by thedefiantbudah on May 19, 2013 19:35:38 GMT -6
The charm person was intended as tongue in cheek kind of thing...not seriously considering it as an option
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Post by thedefiantbudah on May 19, 2013 19:43:05 GMT -6
it seems that Teffer is like Com. Gordon and Mrak is (somewhat fittingly) Batman...Teffer is following the letter of the law whereas Mrak is taking a somewhat less legal direction to fix things...and Teffer may have known this and overlooked things that Mrak had done so as to have deniability in case things go south...if this is the case, then we either join Teffer and go the "lawful" way ...or we join Mrak and go the rogue route with the possibility of it biting us in the ass later
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Post by Gigermann on May 19, 2013 20:19:04 GMT -6
You have to remember that Alain is not Lawful Good, but Lawful Neutral. Teffer is in a moral quandary because, although he follows the law, he is also good. Alain doesn't have any quandary here—he follows the law, good or not. This is, of course, until he changes his alignment.
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Post by Rigil Kent on May 19, 2013 20:23:00 GMT -6
Teffer is also a paladin. If he knowingly and willingly cooperates with an Evil character or commits an Evil act, he loses his paladin status. As he is still a paladin, Alain is more likely to trust him than Mrak.
@ LabRat: That's a pretty decent plan, actually.
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