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Post by Rigil Kent on May 8, 2011 11:09:37 GMT -6
Use this thread to discuss how the money is divided up among the crew. Everything in this thread is OOC.
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Post by zenwolf on May 8, 2011 12:35:04 GMT -6
I am not really worried as a player how we split up the money. All funds above sustenance for me essentially disappear, so I haven't really given it much thought. All of Ondo's share(or pay) goes back to his family. The character is concerned, sure. But me? Not so much.
We are currently in the black and are in line to score a pretty big payday if we can successfully complete the mission. As long as we cover our planned expenses while still having enough to deal with some of the unplanned expenses, I am cool with whatever we decide. I would like to stay in the black, but with the game galaxy such as it is I don't see that being the case for much longer.
What say the rest of you?
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Post by Gigermann on May 8, 2011 15:04:05 GMT -6
The Star Wars game is more "cinematic" than "procedural," so the funding never really has been an issue for me—though I can't think of any other game we've played where it has been a big deal. Usually it doesn't come up until somebody needs something, at which point we divide it up—which has always been god enough. That said, Rigil put up a sample Ship's Articles on the OP website, which is a RL standard for this sort of thing, and should probably be looked at in more detail, both to better define areas of responsibility, and the number of shares of potential profit (and when that is to be determined). If we want a little more specificity in the crew's pay situation, that's the place to start.
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Post by LabRat on May 9, 2011 9:39:39 GMT -6
In the one campaign that I played where money was involved it seemed like money was just used as a reward in the form of loot but it really wasn't used outside of the idea that someone wanted to buy something.
In this campaign there is the problem that we have more responsibility concerning where our money goes. We have a ship to take care of as well as our characters seeing profit. I wasn't too concerned with our shares just because Tesla still has some of her own money and she's kinda in it for the long haul until she can figure out her next move. However, I don't know the financial situations for others so I guess we do need to figure out what we're going to do when someone wants to dip into the profits and buy something.
If only a few people have need to make purchases with our plunder then we can just make note of it and when the time comes we can give them their share minus their past expenses. I don't think that there can ever be a time where (assuming our shares are equal) we can just take whatever we have divide it seven ways and call it good. Then we run into the problem that if our ship needs repairs we would have to look towards the individual players to cough up the credits. An idea to make sure our needs are being met is to divide up the profit as we get it, some going to the ship and some of it going to the players. An example would be 30% goes to normal ship expenses (fuel, food, etc.), 20% would be for a slush fund in case the ship gets into trouble and our normal ship expenses is depleted, 50% would be divided among the crew as profit. If there's ever a time where we all decide to part ways the then slush fund would be treated as profit and divided among the crew.
Of course for that to work we would have to assign someone to keep track of all of this out of game. If only I could think of someone who loves spreadsheets and sometimes has slow periods at work....hrmmmm....
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Post by WxMAN on May 9, 2011 9:52:55 GMT -6
If only a few people have need to make purchases with our plunder then we can just make note of it and when the time comes we can give them their share minus their past expenses. This is actually a really good idea... maybe better than the one I am going to suggest... I figure we decide upon an amount to save for ship related stuff... say 20,000 (just throwing out a number) that will cover birthing, refueling, repairs, etc etc... anything above that is split up amongst the crew... so say we do a job... we started with 20,000 cr for the ship... it cost 2,000 cr for birthing and refueling... during the job we made 9,000 cr... so b/c the ship funds are at 18,000 cr we take 2,000 cr out of the 9,000 cr to bring the ship fund back to 20,000 cr... leaving 7,000 cr to split amongst the crew... I just figure what we need to do is make money, then reinvest into our crew for better survivability and profitability and just keep that cycle going until the Hutts have to come to us to ask for a loan...
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Post by Rigil Kent on May 11, 2011 16:15:51 GMT -6
Is there anything resembling a consensus on this? Do we need to set some time aside on Friday so you guys can discuss this in person? Shall I bring boxing gloves?
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Post by zenwolf on May 12, 2011 11:02:26 GMT -6
Shall I bring boxing gloves? Nah, dueling pistols sounds better,lol. I am still pretty much cool with whatever people want to do on this. Though if we use Shelly's concept I would proably lean more 30% to the crew. Also from that 30% that we split among the crew an equal share should go into a "droid fund" or something to that effect so that Gigermann can have his share too.
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Post by Gigermann on May 12, 2011 11:20:09 GMT -6
Also from that 30% that we split among the crew an equal share should go into a "droid fund" or something to that effect so that Gigermann can have his share too. As far as that goes, although the Articles currently don't reflect the change (need to fix it when we sort qall this out), between runs, after 8t gained the Independent Droid PC, he had himself signed onto the Articles as a regular crewman, and no longer as anyone's property—the first sign that something was going on w/ him.
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Post by WxMAN on May 12, 2011 11:25:41 GMT -6
after 8t gained the Independent Droid PC, he had himself signed onto the Articles as a regular crewman, and no longer as anyone's property—the first sign that something was going on w/ him. Oh great... now we have a tin can who can sign its name and thinks it would hold up in court... How about if 8T33 does good we give him a can of WD40 as an 'atta boy' ;D
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Post by LabRat on May 12, 2011 11:32:18 GMT -6
I'm fine with whatever we decide. There's upsides and downsides to each system. The first one I suggested is easiest to implement but we would have to do some maths towards the end to make sure that each share is proportional to the amount of money you spent in along the way.
The second system does give everyone money as we earn it but it can tend to be an "overly cautious" system that does tie up some of the money until the very end.
The system that Nate suggested is also a quick way to have players see money fast but there's no safety net. Meaning that if we misjudge the amount of money we want to have as a ship fund, when its gone its gone and we'll have to be looking towards individual players for ship repairs.
I'm partial to rapiers at dawn myself, but I'm more of a morning person and like to have an advantage ;D
Yeah, the percentages were arbitrary and can be altered to however we decide. 30% is probably the lowest this crew would want in terms of shares...other wise there might be mutiny on our hands.
Agreed, though it might seem a bit weird to have a "second class citizen" have an equal share in game but we're kind of a crazy bunch so it will work.
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Post by Gigermann on May 12, 2011 11:44:57 GMT -6
Oh great... now we have a tin can who can sign its name and thinks it would hold up in court... How about if 8T33 does good we give him a can of WD40 as an 'atta boy' ;D You're bucking to have the head suddenly malfunction when you are in it
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Post by zenwolf on May 12, 2011 16:08:54 GMT -6
Agreed, though it might seem a bit weird to have a "second class citizen" have an equal share in game but we're kind of a crazy bunch so it will work. My post was a little unclear, sorry Here is what I meant to say with my statement. (Note: All percentage are just an example) : 6 crew members get 1/6 of 30% or 5% of total profit to each crew member. 50% to upkeep of ship and crew 20% to "slush" fund. from that slush fund 5% of total profit is removed and put in a "droid budget" that way all players are compensated without the characters having to act out of character. Just a suggestion and one that is largely moot since I was unaware that 8T had been written in to the articles as a member of the crew and would then be entitled to a share. Though the articles on Obsidian Portal still list him property of Jor. Should it be updated? Yeah, the percentages were arbitrary and can be altered to however we decide. 30% is probably the lowest this crew would want in terms of shares...other wise there might be mutiny on our hands. Just some thoughts and maybe a few things for us to take under consideration. - Each crew member is already getting room and board. Which, especially with the galaxy in its current state, really isn't anything to sneeze at.
- Our proposed haul from the mission we are on if everything goes according to plan (which it won't, lol)was something like 178,000 credits
8.3%=approx. 14,833 credits 5%=8900 credits
Both of these are fairly astronomical sums for PCs, especially given our level.
- Given that much wealth, I find it just as likely for the party to fall apart as not getting paid at all. Ondo could retire back to Gelgelar with his family and use the money to live off of while they run the Tavern. Not sure about the other characters but for me it would strain my sense of disbelief if mine kept on flying after that except to find Augurr, but the trail has currently ran cold.
- I guess I am just left wondering what exactly is it that we are wanting to buy? Are individuals saving for something specific or is it just a matter of "my character wants to get paid"? Because if it's the latter we might be better off just going with monthly (?) "paychecks" instead of shares.
- I still think a sizable portion should go into operating costs just like any other business. It's probably not a good idea to give too large a portion to the crew. Some people will spend all or most of their money. If it comes around that operating costs aren't being covered then the burden would fall to those who still have money. This isn't really fair to those who are saving up or just being resposible with their money. Just as a side note, my money dissapears immediately to the family so I wouldn't be able to chip in if something came up, which again just isn't fair to the rest of you.
Wow for someone who doesn't really care, I sure do have a lot of opinions.
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Post by LabRat on May 12, 2011 19:19:06 GMT -6
But surely its our greed and sense of adventure that would keep us going? I know for my character Tesla is pretty much a drifter so as of right now she would stick around because she doesn't really have any other place to go. I'm a bit fuzzy on that as well. Tesla is going buy a ion gun at some point but I think she can cover it with the money that she currently has. The ship articles state that we would get a cut in the payments we pick up so I am under the impression that we are simply doing this because our characters would expect to get paid along the way. Agreed. I touched on this briefly with the other systems but I didn't go into as much depth nor did I say it as prettily. Bottom line is that I share the same concern. So we can divide the shares into percentages with a ship fund and a slush fund and a small-ish percentage going to the crew or we can do paychecks and appoint someone to payroll. Yeah its funny that the one who actually had a problem with this is too busy messing with the droid
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Post by WxMAN on May 13, 2011 8:51:04 GMT -6
Our proposed haul from the mission we are on if everything goes according to plan (which it won't, lol)was something like 178,000 credits 8.3%=approx. 14,833 credits 5%=8900 credits Both of these are fairly astronomical sums for PCs, especially given our level. Then let's make it a smaller percentage... say 10% (with the rest going to upkeep and investing in the future)... which is 17,800 credits... 6 ways is ~2967 cr... more reasonable? Given that much wealth, I find it just as likely for the party to fall apart as not getting paid at all. Well, we are supposed to be caring about the money... maybe I don't understand the economy, but could you really retire on 8,900 cr? I mean I figure that is only a few months worth of rent and food? 8,000 cr is enough to buy a suit of armor and that's about it... 5,000 cr is the cost of a personal computer... Perchance there will be a reason besides money or hiding that we will stay flying shortly (ie, war)? I guess I am just left wondering what exactly is it that we are wanting to buy? Are individuals saving for something specific or is it just a matter of "my character wants to get paid"? Because if it's the latter we might be better off just going with monthly (?) "paychecks" instead of shares. I personally think we need some more survival-esque stuff... ion pistols for example, so when we come against robots we can shut them down as opposed to killing them outright... all-temp cloaks... breather masks... etc etc.. and that's just for people... I don't know the ship stuff very well (mainly b/c it isn't in my characters knowledge base) but we could look at getting scramblers, stealth stuff, etc etc... illegal or not, the stuff we're doing isn't exactly legal and we need to prevent the people we piss off from finding us... Wow for someone who doesn't really care, I sure do have a lot of opinions. Good. I think your character would care most of all since he is supporting a family... Yeah its funny that the one who actually had a problem with this is too busy messing with the droid The one who had a problem with it was merely pointing out the characters who SHOULD be concerned with money sure weren't acting like it...
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Post by Gigermann on May 13, 2011 8:57:34 GMT -6
the characters who SHOULD be concerned with money sure weren't acting like it... I don't necessarily agree with this. The entire purpose of our "venture" is to make money, and we've been doing whatever we had to to get it (including things we really did not want to do, like going to the Hutts). You could make the case that nobody was fretting about their personal shares, but you really have to have a profit first, before you can think about splitting it up. I can't figure out what gave you the impression anybody wasn't "taking it seriously" (my term). Side note: There's no reason we have to split up the profits to buy stuff like breathers and ion guns, etc.—it would be better to purchase these sorts of items for the ship rather than the individual (a little "communistic," I know, but that can work on a small scale like this operation)
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Post by LabRat on May 13, 2011 10:55:26 GMT -6
Sure, sounds good to me. I can assume, if we agree to this, 10% will be the crew's pay for endeavors in the future. We can take money out of the droid fund to "match" it for 8t so he can get a share as well. Anyone oppose? That's great, but this thread is OOC, meaning that anyone can join in to fix the problem, regardless of what you think characters should be doing
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Post by zenwolf on May 13, 2011 11:04:41 GMT -6
Good. I think your character would care most of all since he is supporting a family... Yeah its funny that the one who actually had a problem with this is too busy messing with the droid The one who had a problem with it was merely pointing out the characters who SHOULD be concerned with money sure weren't acting like it... Let's clear something up because you seem to be confusing my in character and out of character thoughts on the matter. Ondo: Very concerned about finances to the point he has agreed to do a job for the Hutts. He continues to pursue these high risk jobs to provide a better life for his family. Josh: Doesn't really care how we split everything up or even that we split it up at all. I don't derive game enjoyment by dealing with the minutiae of all this. I am content to think of all that happening off stage. I am more interested in the plot and character development than how much money he sends home to his family. Is all this really important to you or has it only become an issue because of how I am playing the game?
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Post by WxMAN on May 13, 2011 11:23:03 GMT -6
You could make the case that nobody was fretting about their personal shares, but you really have to have a profit first, before you can think about splitting it up. I can't figure out what gave you the impression anybody wasn't "taking it seriously" (my term). I guess it just seemed like the characters weren't reacting as I expected (rightly or wrongly), such as, no big concern about saving money, watching our expenditures, making sure we take/sell anything we can (a little "communistic," I know, but that can work on a small scale like this operation) That's fine with me... it seems we have a droid painted a little red... don't we comrade Is all this really important to you or has it only become an issue because of how I am playing the game? I'm sorry, I don't want to come off like this is a me vs you thing, or even that I am singling you out... I think it just has to do with the way I think (very left brained) where I love spreadsheets, finances, etc etc... and it is just in my nature to concern myself (OOC) with money, and it kinda came out heavy in this campaign as I see our characters as destitute people trying to scrape together some credits to rub together... In other campaigns thus far, our unifying goal is typically to defeat big bad, where money just comes 'naturally' and isn't a driving force as it feels like it is to me in this campaign... so, many apologies if you feel like I've been 'hounding' you about this, you are just captain so I (IC) feel it is your decision to decide how the money thing goes...
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Post by Gigermann on May 13, 2011 11:27:07 GMT -6
and it is just in my nature to concern myself (OOC) with money Maybe you shoulda played the purser/admin-type…seriously
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Post by LabRat on May 13, 2011 12:43:29 GMT -6
Exactly, he is the captain so as a crew member you have put you trust in him to make the right decision. If Ondo decides we need to take our shares and give them to charity you as a character need to follow his orders because as of right now, its his ship. Granted there would probably be consequences for that and as captain Ondo needs to know how far he can push his crew to obtain the best results. Its a big responsibility, and he hasn't been captain for that long.
Now out of character you have addressed some concerns regarding gameplay, and we as a group have tried to accommodate those concerns. We wouldn't have had a thread like this if we weren't trying to solve the issues you brought up, and we've also thought up ideas to streamline our roll-playing. We have eight individuals who are trying to act like a team in order to have a good time but you need to remember that we are all different and as such we might play our characters differently than what your expectations are.
I'm not trying to tick you off or disagree with you. There's just going to be a point where a person thinks they are playing their character under proper parameters even if you (or anyone for that matter) disagree. I just think we are at that point now. This is simply Friday night entertainment and we are playing STAR WARS for goodness sake. You know the franchise that's owned by the Devil who thinks slugs are at the top of the monetary food chain and techni-colored women with tentacles are sex symbols? I think we're okay if we are not 100% realistic in our actions.
So we don't go scraping for tin cans and sell them for 5 cents a piece (to bad we aren't in Michigan, we could get 10), we're risking our well-being by working for the Hutts, that's gotta count for something right? I guess I'm just trying to point out that we are making strides in solving the problems but they might not be to your personal standards. There are just too many people to meet everybody's needs exactly and there's going to be a point where anyone needs to realize that there needs to be compromise. It might not be perfect but I think that everyone is willing to make strides to have a positive gaming experience. It is up to us as individuals to recognize that effort and have that serve as a buffer for our own personal expectations.
Now I think we hammered out our pay system. I just figured out that Tesla was ship's purser (imagine what you learn from reading the ship's articles) so I can be more pro-active in "saving/earning" money if that would help. Actually if anything you could be on my butt for that just as much as Ondo's. We all agreed that there is a problem with role-playing but that kinda comes with the territory but we can address that tonight if anyone wishes.
Anybody else have anything else to say? Problems, questions, comments? Are we cool?
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Post by Gigermann on May 13, 2011 12:54:51 GMT -6
and techni-colored women with tentacles are sex symbols? Aren't they? @n8: I think I see what's going on here, now. I think you're expecting a more "procedural" approach to this game, and being a not-so-big-time-fan of the Franchise™ (not to the standards of the rest of us, anyway), you aren't taking into account that this is not how Star Wars works. SW is very abstract and cinematic, especially WRT the gritty details. This is also how Rigil tends to run SW, and what the rest of us have come to expect from it. I wonder if you might actually be more comfortable with something like Traveller, which definitely trends in the "procedural" direction. (On that note, if you'd like to see for yourself, and you have some free time on Sat evenings, I'm playing in a GURPS Traveller game online, that has room for more).
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Post by LabRat on May 13, 2011 14:02:30 GMT -6
No, they're not. And if that's all you got out of my "chick" speech then I'm a bit offended
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