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Post by Rigil Kent on Dec 30, 2012 22:20:09 GMT -6
So ... just the two of us chiming in? Slackers...
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Post by LabRat on Dec 30, 2012 23:26:48 GMT -6
For the record, I've been on vacation, which means that I have been more busy than if I weren't on vacation. Secondly, I'm married to the guy. Trust me, there have been long sessions of praise and ego stroking. I just didn't write it down here because I didn't think anyone outside of the GM would be interested in what I had to say. If you want a record for posterity then I'll write down the abridged version sans pet names and sugar coated embellishments
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Post by WxMAN on Dec 31, 2012 20:57:17 GMT -6
I figured for posterity and helping the other two newbies, I would give some thoughts about my time behind the screen. - I tended to try and an run 'up tempo' game. My thought was the faster the more interested the players would stay in the game. This was especially true in combat where I tried to always keep things moving. I may have been pushing too fast for my experience level, but I'm guessing eventually I will find a good pace.
- The game moves much much faster. This may have been partially due to me running 'up tempo' and I am sure it will eventualy 'slow down' but at least for the first time running I felt like I always almost always 'behind the game'
- It is much harder to play 'optimally' in combat when GM'ing. As a player I am much more tactical, but there are just so many enemies to handle that I tend to, when in doubt, play it more conservatively than I do as a player
- I really enjoyed coming up with the stories and the situations, though I found the shared GM concept to be both nice (as you aren't running a full campaign) but hard (as you don't "own" the campaign and it is hard to develop a long storyline)
- I didn't like statting out enemies that didn't have entries in the monster manuals. It was especially a pain with spellcasters, figuring out what spells they'd have prepped for the day, etc. I hated it.
- Prep, at least for me, was a saving grace. I wrote well over 30 pages of notes for my 4 weeks, each week refining my process bit by bit and it saved me many times.
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Post by Rigil Kent on Dec 31, 2012 21:33:33 GMT -6
but hard (as you don't "own" the campaign and it is hard to develop a long storyline) I'm approaching it like a television series - each GM has a certain story arc that they are telling. So I can set up certain plot points and then come back to address them again when its my turn to run again.
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Post by WxMAN on Jan 2, 2013 14:34:05 GMT -6
Another thing I forgot: If anyone would like access to my GM notes for my first run I'd be glad to share them, just let me know. There are no long term spoilers as I had conceived my run as a 'mini-sode' or 'prologue' to the main adventure...
Though if people think this is a bad idea for whatever reason (please say why), I don't 'need' to share them either...
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Post by thedefiantbudah on Jan 5, 2013 14:47:17 GMT -6
well, i think i got my first session/adventure figured out (will have to make some adjustments based on what Rigil finishes with) and yes, it's a pre-gen'd mod...but have added a few tweaks that might or might not be interesting in the long run...yay me lol
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Post by Rigil Kent on Jan 6, 2013 22:21:02 GMT -6
If you or LabRat happen to want to bounce anything off me, feel free. I have faith that both of you are more than capable, but I know all too well the occasional need for a second set of eyes...
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Post by Gigermann on Jan 7, 2013 9:27:31 GMT -6
Self-AAR for Session 1.4.2013: - Slow start, to be expected for not having run anything "serious" for over a year—could've been worse. Did start to warm up as it went along, as usual
- Near-killer first encounter. Not as bad if I'm not rolling awesome . After the fact, I could think of one thing that would have made it less dire: have the skellies coming from one direction in the tight quarters, allowing the group to be defended by fewer folk. FWIW, if I had correctly understood the situation at the end of N8's run (whoever was at fault for that—me or him), everyone would have been in full-battle-rattle, anyway
- Bandits fight turned out like I expected, which makes me wonder where I went wrong with the first—maybe just a better tactical position
- Did a crap-tastic job of keeping things moving, such that it resulted in us falling behind pace—going to fix that, next time
- I suck at dialogue—need to script some of that stuff out, or do my old "talking points" thing. Better prep.
- Used the travel events generator for travel events—but potentially-hostile encounters (poachers, con-men) need a little more attention. Better prep. That said, I'm still working on the "right way" to do the "travel" thing—nothing I've ever come across has really gotten across the feel I've been looking for
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Post by LabRat on Jan 7, 2013 10:56:06 GMT -6
Self-AAR for Session 1.4.2013: - Slow start, to be expected for not having run anything "serious" for over a year—could've been worse. Did start to warm up as it went along, as usual
- Near-killer first encounter. Not as bad if I'm not rolling awesome . After the fact, I could think of one thing that would have made it less dire: have the skellies coming from one direction in the tight quarters, allowing the group to be defended by fewer folk. FWIW, if I had correctly understood the situation at the end of N8's run (whoever was at fault for that—me or him), everyone would have been in full-battle-rattle, anyway
- Bandits fight turned out like I expected, which makes me wonder where I went wrong with the first—maybe just a better tactical position
- Did a crap-tastic job of keeping things moving, such that it resulted in us falling behind pace—going to fix that, next time
- I suck at dialogue—need to script some of that stuff out, or do my old "talking points" thing. Better prep.
- Used the travel events generator for travel events—but potentially-hostile encounters (poachers, con-men) need a little more attention. Better prep. That said, I'm still working on the "right way" to do the "travel" thing—nothing I've ever come across has really gotten across the feel I've been looking for
I think that you have touched on everything that I was going to comment in terms of improvement, so yay for your self reflection. I think another reason why the skeletons were so difficult was because a lot of the players were rolling like crap. I think we were on the third round before any one of us was able to hit something. Still, we made it out alive, so no harm, no foul. I think that if you do some better prep and hammer out the details and take a few sessions to get back into the swing of things, then you should be fine. I really like your ring idea, though I have a feeling that eventually all players are going to be tempted/enchanted by it, so that might provide some interesting role play opportunities. Using the four halflings that robbed Maia in the beginning was brilliant as well. All in all, I think it was a pretty good start, excluding the shaky areas. The hardest part is knowing what areas you need to work on for next time. You've already done that, so now, you just gotta fix them.
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Post by Gigermann on Jan 7, 2013 11:00:09 GMT -6
Using the four halflings that robbed Maia in the beginning was brilliant as well. Can't really take credit for that—it was an intentional setup on N8's part. I'm surprised everyone didn't pick up on that.
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Post by WxMAN on Jan 7, 2013 11:03:03 GMT -6
Near-killer first encounter. Not as bad if I'm not rolling awesome I think this was the combination of a few things: you rolling very well, all of the PC's rolling very poorly, and the skellies completely surrounding us that led to such a difficult encounter, because on paper that should have been much easier than it turned out to be... FWIW, if I had correctly understood the situation at the end of N8's run (whoever was at fault for that—me or him), everyone would have been in full-battle-rattle, anyway I don't know what full-battle-rattle is, but this is all your fault. I refuse to take any personal responsibility of anything that may or may not of happened vis a vis, e plurubus unum, caveat emptor, ipso facto. I expected the hand-offs to have issues, especially those going from new to old gm - there is always different ways of seeing the same thing, especially when one person describes something to another. Regardless of 'fault' it does tell me I definitely need to do a better job describing somethings and let the PC's better understand the situation in front of them - I will work on that in my next run Did a crap-tastic job of keeping things moving, such that it resulted in us falling behind pace—going to fix that, next time I think this may have been due to several things, at least from my PoV: - GM rust (like you said, its been over a year)
- Personal dislike of GM'ing... As far as I recall, you've stated that you don't really care to GM much so some of that may be further aggravating the other points in this list.
- Lack of prep. Isn't it funny how work gets super busy right when you have to start GM'ing? Some people can work very well off of nearly no script. I can't and at least right now it doesn't look like you are comfortable working without much more prep
- Other distractions: it seemed like some folk had been bottling all their snark and shit they couldn't give to me while I was running for a month and gave you an extra helping for your run.. This led to a very choppy pace as we kept getting side tracked with humor or giving you crap.
I suck at dialogue—need to script some of that stuff out, or do my old "talking points" thing. Better prep. Dialog gave me a ton of issues as well, mainly b/c it is hard to 'prep' for what the PC's will say/ask/do. I like the talking points idea and prep seems to be the common theme from you. I'm still working on the "right way" to do the "travel" thing—nothing I've ever come across has really gotten across the feel I've been looking for I'm not sure the feel you are going for and I didn't try a 'travel' situation during my run so there isn't anything I can really suggest... I can just imagine it being very difficult to get 'right' as I can't even think how I would approach it...
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Post by LabRat on Jan 7, 2013 11:09:11 GMT -6
If you or LabRat happen to want to bounce anything off me, feel free. I have faith that both of you are more than capable, but I know all too well the occasional need for a second set of eyes... I worked on it this weekend and I feel pretty good. I had a devil of a time getting started but once I gained some momentum, things started to progress fairly quickly. I literally had nothing for three hours but then by the end of the fourth hour I had a lot of content. I think I have enough for two sessions + whatever I need to do to resolve Giger's cliffhanger so I can start my planned adventure. I plan on running 4, so I have some ideas already in the works for session 3 and 4. Right now I am not struggling in terms of story or encounters, but more of logistics. It seems rather railroad-y right now so I need to think of ways to CMA if you guys decide to go east instead of west. Other problems are things that a new GM would struggle with because they haven't experienced it before (like balancing encounters, etc.). I know what I want to do, but not necessarily the best way to do it. So if I really get stuck, you better believe I'll be asking for your help.
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Post by Gigermann on Jan 7, 2013 11:25:01 GMT -6
I expected the hand-offs to have issues, especially those going from new to old gm - there is always different ways of seeing the same thing, especially when one person describes something to another. Regardless of 'fault' it does tell me I definitely need to do a better job describing somethings and let the PC's better understand the situation in front of them - I will work on that in my next run Sometimes there's just nothing you can do—you think you described it well enough, but everyone else hears something else entirely. There's "co" in communication for a reason. Then there's the "creative recall" issue… I still maintain that the disembodied voice at the end of your run said more than "Fools!"—good example.
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Post by Gigermann on Jan 7, 2013 11:27:13 GMT -6
It seems rather railroad-y right now so I need to think of ways to CMA if you guys decide to go east instead of west. This is a good example of what we usually do, but should not do. Instead, you should change your own intentions such that they don't require going East. Easier said than done, though.
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Post by Rigil Kent on Jan 7, 2013 13:37:27 GMT -6
it seemed like some folk had been bottling all their snark and shit they couldn't give to me while I was running for a month and gave you an extra helping for your run.. I have absolutely no idea what the hell you're talking about here. None whatsoever. I also have nothing really constructive to add as all of the points have been touched on already.
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Post by LabRat on Jan 7, 2013 15:30:43 GMT -6
it seemed like some folk had been bottling all their snark and shit they couldn't give to me while I was running for a month and gave you an extra helping for your run.. I have absolutely no idea what the hell you're talking about here. None whatsoever. Meaning that you guys weren't hazing Nate because he was new. You were being nice to him by being on your best behavior. Daniel has done GM-ing before so you (universal you) were more apt to give him crap. If we go by law of averages then if you give Nate less crap, you would give Daniel more.
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Post by Rigil Kent on Jan 7, 2013 15:32:32 GMT -6
Frick. I forgot to add a smirky face after my comment. Maybe one whistling.
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Post by LabRat on Jan 7, 2013 15:47:16 GMT -6
Frick. I forgot to add a smirky face after my comment. Maybe one whistling. And I have this terrible habit of thinking everyone is talking with sincerity.
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Post by thedefiantbudah on Jan 7, 2013 16:43:37 GMT -6
If you or LabRat happen to want to bounce anything off me, feel free. I have faith that both of you are more than capable, but I know all too well the occasional need for a second set of eyes... i think i might have you look it over just to see what you think and offer any advice as far as tweaking it where needed
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Post by Gigermann on Jan 14, 2013 9:36:48 GMT -6
Self-AAR for Session 1.11.2013: - Went much better, overall, from my perspective—getting re-acclimated (just in time to stop )
- Tower fight went about like I intended—could potentially have done some damage, but didn't; will get progressively more difficult. Used the "Mass Roller" to relatively good effect, for the first volley anyway
- Travel montages still need some work, though this time, included NPC-interactions, which turned out reasonably well, IMO
- I had intended to be a bit more "descriptive" this time, but that didn't happen—shouldn't rely on the pics to do all the work
- Still didn't quite get as far as I intended, though close—not sure why, this time; always difficult to judge
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Post by LabRat on Jan 14, 2013 10:56:25 GMT -6
Self-AAR for Session 1.11.2013: - Went much better, overall, from my perspective—getting re-acclimated (just in time to stop )
- Tower fight went about like I intended—could potentially have done some damage, but didn't; will get progressively more difficult. Used the "Mass Roller" to relatively good effect, for the first volley anyway
- Travel montages still need some work, though this time, included NPC-interactions, which turned out reasonably well, IMO
- I had intended to be a bit more "descriptive" this time, but that didn't happen—shouldn't rely on the pics to do all the work
- Still didn't quite get as far as I intended, though close—not sure why, this time; always difficult to judge
I think it was a better go round this time. You seem to be finding your stride and I would have to say that if you really want to find your stride, I wouldn't mind if you go for an extra week . However, I also think that some of your problems (NPC interactions, pacing, etc) stem from something that you haven't mentioned . There have been a lot of disruptions/extraneous bits of conversation over the last two weeks. I don't think that I have heard a piece of dialogue yet that you've said where someone else wasn't talking. I don't know if that bothers you, but it would bother me. There was one time toward the end when you did ask for people to be quiet, but it completely fell on deaf ears. I am sorry to say it, but that just isn't acceptable. Since we are rotating this campaign we need to start enforcing mutual respect. And just because someone is experienced doesn't give anyone the right to heckle/not pay attention so much so that it takes away from the campaign. In this case, I think that it did. You tend to be a quieter GM and so there were a lot of charming bits that got lost in the din. One way to fix that is for you to have more presence at commanding the table, but I still feel like players should be conscientious of that and reduce the extraneous stimulation. I don't mean to come off as admonishing but there were a lot of times where I thought that if it were only quieter, I could have heard what you just said.
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Post by Rigil Kent on Jan 14, 2013 11:19:54 GMT -6
Yeah ... just throw something at me when I start channeling SQ. That'll shut me up.
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Post by LabRat on Jan 14, 2013 11:58:51 GMT -6
Yeah ... just throw something at me when I start channeling SQ. That'll shut me up. I wasn't directing that entirely toward you. And I am sure there were times I was running my mouth as well. We were all guilty. It was just especially apparent to me this time around and I just thought that something needed to be said. And truth be told, this is a bit self serving because if there are a lot of distractions, it would make my first time running that much harder. Plus I don't like to yell at people to command attention because in the end, I think it's a buzzkill. If we can nip it in the bud early, then it would be easier for everyone.
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Post by Rigil Kent on Jan 14, 2013 12:04:19 GMT -6
Not entirely at me, but I was definitely the worst offender.
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Post by Gigermann on Jan 14, 2013 12:37:25 GMT -6
Plus I don't like to yell at people to command attention because in the end, I think it's a buzzkill. Same; hence my lack of "commanding presence"
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Post by WxMAN on Jan 14, 2013 15:22:32 GMT -6
Went much better, overall, from my perspective—getting re-acclimated (just in time to stop ) I agree, the question I have for you is how does the GM seat feel? I know in the past you have expressed general dislike for GM'ing and I wonder if there is anything we, as players, can do that could help make things better or if it is just something that doesn't "click" with you (ie, some people are just made to be players, some are made to be GMs... just a personal preference as to what the individual likes)
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Post by Gigermann on Jan 14, 2013 15:28:50 GMT -6
I agree, the question I have for you is how does the GM seat feel? I know in the past you have expressed general dislike for GM'ing and I wonder if there is anything we, as players, can do that could help make things better or if it is just something that doesn't "click" with you (ie, some people are just made to be players, some are made to be GMs... just a personal preference as to what the individual likes) I find the seat uncomfortable, but that's just a personal thing—I don't like being in the spotlight, or being in charge, hence the lack of a "commanding presence." I can get over that, in time. My issue right now, though, is a little different: I just don't want to do the inevitable work it takes to do it right, a condition that has been worsening for years—which is ironic, since I can't actually stop doing the work. There are a lot of variables involved in the situation, few of which have anything to do with the current stable of Players (with which I have developed a certain equilibrium, I think).
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Post by Rigil Kent on Jan 14, 2013 15:33:58 GMT -6
Giger is a world-builder who ends up being uninterested in the minutiae of actually running the game. So in a lot of ways, he's an ideal co-GM - let him create the interesting and fascinating world ... and then, take over from him and ruin it.
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Post by thedefiantbudah on Jan 17, 2013 10:56:58 GMT -6
and i think i found the second "half" of my adventure...just have to do some more tweaking
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Post by WxMAN on Jan 17, 2013 11:06:41 GMT -6
and i think i found the second "half" of my adventure...just have to do some more tweaking Huzzah! You're planning on us being ~3rd level for the run right?
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